I had replaced the inline fuse with a fuse block when I added a turn indicator to the truck. It worked fine for a while. I may try to put the inline fuse back to see if that makes a difference. FYI - the turn indicators still work fine.
I have the same set-up, in addition to the wiring as mentioned above make sure it is not binding up, move it by hand across the arc and you should be able to feel if it is? Good luck!
You could try this: Disconnect the wire from the switch to the motor, pull that wire out from under the dash and see that it is going to the motor(not wrapped around any brackets possibly shorting through a break in the insulator) Connect an in-line fuse to this wire, and touch it to a voltage source, the battery for example. After doing this if the wipers work it could indicate a problem upstream(wiring/switch/fuseblock).
The way to begin a trouble shoot for a fairly simple problem, is to isolate the motor from everything presently connected to it. This is the quickest way to make progress without a bunch of guessing. Run a NEW temporary wire with a NEW proper amp inline fuse from the battery to the motor terminal. Again be sure you have the proper fuse. It would be nice to eliminate the switch during the test also. The result will be:
1. Wiper won't move 2. Fuse blows immediately 3. Mechanical problem as Brad Allen said. Sticking arms. Linkage interference with something. Fuse blows. 4. Smoke 5. Works good Be sure you are ready to observe, when power is applied during the test, to see if wiper moves freely and how long it moves before fail. And any other anomalies.
Answer all of these questions: Do you realize this is a 12V motor? Can you post the wiring instructions so I can tell you how to wire the test? Is this a one speed motor or ? How many wires does it have? Chances are the motor is grounded by bolting to truck and using the chassis metal, like everything else does. Who installed the motor and who wired it up?
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
1) Yes, it is a 12 volt truck. 2) The hot wire from the ignition switch goes into a small fuse block that also powers my turn indicators. Those are working fine. That tells me there is no insulation break from the ignition to the fuse block. 3) The motor was installed when I purchased the vehicle. The wires all appear news. The wires are red, white, blue and yellow. Yes, the ground is likely from the bolting to the body. 4) The switch has two speeds. 5) Saturday I disconnected the turn indicators, put in a fresh fuse for the wipers, turned them on and they moved for two cycles, and then the fuse blew again. I replaced the fuse and it blew immediately without cycling at all. 6) There is never any smoke. 7) I'll try a new inline fuse to see if the block is the issue. 8) I'll check to see if the wire is wrapped around something that could be causing a break.
Let me know when you are ready to follow my test exactly..... and my requests. I have read the back story. I can not use your ideas and test and assumptions. It seems you have "checked" everything and found nothing.
You say you need help. Something is wrong. I'm trying to help you get fixed.....or this will go on and on
To repeat: The way to begin a trouble shoot for a fairly simple problem, is to isolate the motor from everything presently connected to it............. this includes every wire, every block, every fuse, all switches......everything. Then run a test.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
Thanks bartamos. I'm at work the next few days and won't be able to get under the dash again for a few days.
When you say EVERYTHING... does this mean I need to remove the entire unit and disconnect it from the switch? I'm not a mechanic, so I need to get a feel for the exact steps and how I am powering the unit during the test.
You are not going to remove the motor at this time.
Answer these questions one at a time, carefully. Don't guess. If you don't know, say you don't know.
1. When the motor stops/blows fuse, where are the wiper blades at that time? Parked or random? 2. Did the wipers work OK for a long time before this? 3. Did the trouble start after you did anything? Did any wiring of any kind? It DOES seem like it started after you did some wiring. (Fuse box). So be advised. 4. What size fuse are you using? (Amps). What type of fuse? ATO/ATC or AGC. 5. Did you ever wire or rewire the wiper switch? 6. Does the motor have it's own fuse and NO OTHER wires from that fuse. 7. Describe, using colors/markings and pics, exactly where each wire on the switch goes. All the way to it's end.
See if you can observe from under the dash as motor starts. To see if you can see any binding, interference or hear anything odd.
I will provide a testing suggestion after the answers.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
If it were me, I'd do a visual inspection before you start touching anything under the dash. It sounds to me like you have a wire chaffing on the linkage and it cycled a few times and then welded itself to the linkage. Use you phone to video the areas it's hard to see under the dash...
Mike B
Mike Boteler
1956 Chevy 3100 Resto Rod 1952 Willys M38 Army Jeep 1983 Jeep CJ7 Laredo 1984 Jeep CJ7 +++++ Silver Spring, MD
The new motor fits into the old mount. Uses the old linkage arms. They should have not been disturbed and no geometry changed. However, there is and adjustment for the motor. As Mike says, check the free movement of all that and be sure motor is still tight at it's mounts. If worst comes to worse, the motor disconnects from the linkage quite easily with a spring loaded clip. This clip can be removed and the linkage set aside up in there to see if the motor runs good while disconnected from the linkage(s). We are not sure yet if you have a mechanical or and electrical problem. We will find it with your help. I don't want to give you any electrical tests until the mechanical is double checked.
With you in a learning curve, you need to know how the wiper motor installs in order to see if it is correct or has become out of whack or to spot anything wrong with the operation. So look at this video to get some idea. It is a very grainy video but may help. Click
Hereis another to help understand the first video.
Typically the wiper motor is installed with it's own inline fuse from the ignition switch "ON" or "ACC"
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
When I'm diagnosing a fuse-blowing problem I substitute a self-resetting circuit breaker for the fuse. That allows me to test for shorts without constantly having to replace fuses as they blow. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
1) When the motor stops and the fuse blows, the blades are in a random location. 2) The wipers had been working perfectly when I bought the truck a year ago. 3) The trouble started after I added a small fuse box so I could also add aftermarket turn signals. The inline fuse on the turn signal wasn't a good connection. After I added the fuse box it worked fine for a while. After a hurricane this year water was on my floorboards. Not sure if water got in the switch. The motor appears to be new. 4) I'm using a 20 amp fuse, which was in the inline fuse. The inline fuse was an SFE. The fuse in the fuse block is 20 Amp ATM. 5) I've never rewired the wiper switch. 6) I don't see any sort of fuse on the wiper motor. 7) I removed the switch today to check the wire connections. Yellow goes to L. White goes to H. Blue goes to P. Red goes to B. 8) I'm not able to detect any binding, but I'm open to suggestions on further troubleshooting to check for binding. A few days ago the motor ran for about two cycles before the fuse blew again, so I know it is capable of moving. At that time, I had put the inline fuse back in. Since then, the inline fuse blows instantly. 9) To Mike B suggesting a visual wire inspection, I have not been able to find any wire chaffing.
The new motor fits into the old mount. Uses the old linkage arms. They should have not been disturbed and no geometry changed. However, there is and adjustment for the motor. As Mike says, check the free movement of all that and be sure motor is still tight at it's mounts. If worst comes to worse, the motor disconnects from the linkage quite easily with a spring loaded clip. This clip can be removed and the linkage set aside up in there to see if the motor runs good while disconnected from the linkage(s). We are not sure yet if you have a mechanical or and electrical problem. We will find it with your help. I don't want to give you any electrical tests until the mechanical is double checked.
With you in a learning curve, you need to know how the wiper motor installs in order to see if it is correct or has become out of whack or to spot anything wrong with the operation. So look at this video to get some idea. It is a very grainy video but may help. Click
Hereis another to help understand the first video.
Typically the wiper motor is installed with it's own inline fuse from the ignition switch "ON" or "ACC"
Have you tried disconnecting the linkage to the wipers and letting the motor run with no load on it? It's possible you've got a wiper pivot or some other piece of linkage tightening up and overloading the motor. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Tell me where the red wire goes. Follow it from the switch. BE SPECIFIC. If you take that long to answer again, I will be done. I can't keep track. I think I would use a 5 amp fuse or the breaker idea until the trouble is found. In case there is a mechanical issue holding motor from turning, repeated tries may be stressing the motor.
This is my suggestion: 1. Take off negative cable at battery. 2. Take off the red wire from the switch. Keep it safe and out of the way. It's a hot wire. 3. Install a temporary wire, any color, from the battery positive post, thru an inline fuse and to the place on the switch ("B") where you took off the red wire. 4. Install negative cable at battery. 5. Turn on wiper switch. 4. Report
You can run this temp wire thru the crack in the opened hood and in thru the door or window and to the switch. 6-7 feet....or thru firewall if convenient. Do not install it any other way than described.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
That will be my next step Hotrod. I likely can't get back to it until next weekend. I tried yesterday and I was unable to reach the clips that attached the arms. I think I'll have to remove gauges to get to it.
I could not find any sign of binding. In response to questions from Bartomos about did anything change... I reflected back on when a hurricane came this year I closed the cowl vent to keep rain out. I discovered yesterday that when I open and close the hood cowl vent that the wiper motor moves. The motor has a bracket that attaches to the brace on the vent. The brace was not secure, so I bolted it in.
I also added a ground wire.
So far, none of that has worked. The fuse blows instantly when the switch is turned on. I did find the motor is made by New Port Engineering. I'll call them Monday.
I greatly appreciate the insights each of you has provided.
The red wire starts at the ignition switch, goes to the fuse, then directly to the B terminal on the wiper switch.
I followed your steps 1-5 below. In doing so the wipers did not turn on. The fuse did not blow.
Gerard
Originally Posted by bartamos
Tell me where the red wire goes. Follow it from the switch. BE SPECIFIC. If you take that long to answer again, I will be done. I can't keep track. I think I would use a 5 amp fuse or the breaker idea until the trouble is found. In case there is a mechanical issue holding motor from turning, repeated tries may be stressing the motor.
This is my suggestion: 1. Take off negative cable at battery. 2. Take off the red wire from the switch. Keep it safe and out of the way. It's a hot wire. 3. Install a temporary wire, any color, from the battery positive post, thru an inline fuse and to the place on the switch ("B") where you took off the red wire. 4. Install negative cable at battery. 5. Turn on wiper switch. 4. Report
You can run this temp wire thru the crack in the opened hood and in thru the door or window and to the switch. 6-7 feet....or thru firewall if convenient. Do not install it any other way than described.
Check to see that there is 12V at the switch with the test wire connected. I suspect you did not reattach the battery ground because all you did was replace a hot wire with another hot wire.....thru a different fuse (in an inline fuse holder)....right?
If you do have 12V at the switch, the next step is to take off that test wire from the B and touch it to the L momentarily. Do not remove the yellow from L when you try this. This will be bypassing the switch, to be sure the switch is not bad.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I was finally able to get behind the gauges and remove the spring clip. I then removed the wiper arms as you suggested.
I tried to run the motor on its own. The fuse blew as soon as I turned on the wiper switch.
Gerard
Originally Posted by bartamos
The new motor fits into the old mount. Uses the old linkage arms. They should have not been disturbed and no geometry changed. However, there is and adjustment for the motor. As Mike says, check the free movement of all that and be sure motor is still tight at it's mounts. If worst comes to worse, the motor disconnects from the linkage quite easily with a spring loaded clip. This clip can be removed and the linkage set aside up in there to see if the motor runs good while disconnected from the linkage(s). We are not sure yet if you have a mechanical or and electrical problem. We will find it with your help. I don't want to give you any electrical tests until the mechanical is double checked.
With you in a learning curve, you need to know how the wiper motor installs in order to see if it is correct or has become out of whack or to spot anything wrong with the operation. So look at this video to get some idea. It is a very grainy video but may help. Click
Hereis another to help understand the first video.
Typically the wiper motor is installed with it's own inline fuse from the ignition switch "ON" or "ACC"
Yes, the ground was reconnected. I repeated the process three times just to be sure. Yes, I was using an inline fuse.
Originally Posted by bartamos
Check to see that there is 12V at the switch with the test wire connected. I suspect you did not reattach the battery ground because all you did was replace a hot wire with another hot wire.....thru a different fuse (in an inline fuse holder)....right?
If you do have 12V at the switch, the next step is to take off that test wire from the B and touch it to the L momentarily. Do not remove the yellow from L when you try this. This will be bypassing the switch, to be sure the switch is not bad.
Gerard, you are mixing us up as far as the "Sequence of Events". Please explain the sequence of events. You say fuse blows, tried the test wire, fuse does not blow, took off linkage fuse blows................we don't know when test wire was used during these events. Please advise when old hot wire was used and when new hot wire was used. We want you to use ONLY the test wire and a inline fuse on B. Confirm you have a wire directly from the battery to an inline fuse holder, out the holder to B.
Do the L test
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
No voltage at all on the red wire at the B terminal on the wiper switch.
When I moved the red wire to touch the yellow, the motor moved. When I repeated it a second time, the motor sounds like it is straining to move and is frozen. No further movement.
Gerard
Originally Posted by bartamos
Check to see that there is 12V at the switch with the test wire connected. I suspect you did not reattach the battery ground because all you did was replace a hot wire with another hot wire.....thru a different fuse (in an inline fuse holder)....right?
If you do have 12V at the switch, the next step is to take off that test wire from the B and touch it to the L momentarily. Do not remove the yellow from L when you try this. This will be bypassing the switch, to be sure the switch is not bad.
Everything is being done with the test wire and inline fuse.
Originally Posted by bartamos
Do the L test.
Gerard, you are mixing us up as far as the "Sequence of Events". Please explain the sequence of events. You say fuse blows, tried the test wire, fuse does not blow, took off linkage fuse blows................we don't know when test wire was used during these events. Please advise when old hot wire was used and when new hot wire was used. We want you to use ONLY the test wire and a inline fuse on B.
It is impossible that there was no voltage at the B terminal with the test wire attached to it. What the heck are you doing? Are you reading the instructions carefully?
Gerard, you are mixing us up as far as the "Sequence of Events". Please explain the sequence of events. You say fuse blows, tried the test wire, fuse does not blow, took off linkage fuse blows................we don't know when test wire was used during these events. Please advise when old hot wire was used and when new hot wire was used. We want you to use ONLY the test wire and a inline fuse on B. Confirm you have a wire directly from the battery to an inline fuse holder, out the holder to B.
Confirm that H, L and P wires go directly to the motor. Confirm if they go thru an inline connector or not. I understand that it looks like a binding issue or bad motor. BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We will be in a few minutes after you answer carefully. Don't guess that you did things right, actually look at the set up of your tests again with an open mind or you will not find a possible error.
To illustrate my frustration and confusion and distrust of tests: You say no voltage at B terminal, but when test wire touches L, motor moves. Which means the test wire was hot. So when it was attached to B and terminal was tested, how could there be no voltage???????????? How are you testing for voltage? What meter or devise? Do you have a meter and know how to use it?
I assume that during both L tests, fuse did not blow? I assume during L test, no linkage attached? What size fuse is in the inline fuse holder? I have another test coming. This post is very important, please read and answer each question.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I am still running everything off of the test wire with the inline fuse.
The motor ran briefly when the test wire from the battery to the fuse to the red B terminal was used. After several cycles, the fuse blew again.
I'm leaning toward thinking the switch is the next thing to replace. Prior to the fuse blowing, I rotated the wiper switch to the other two positions. Both of the other positions seem to result in no motor movement but the sound of motor strain. It seems the motor was running when the switch was in the off position.
I have to go buy more fuses. I'll repeat the test in a few minutes.
Thoughts welcome.
Originally Posted by bartamos
It is impossible that there was no voltage at the B terminal with the test wire attached to it. What the heck are you doing? Are you reading the instructions carefully?
Gerard, you are mixing us up as far as the "Sequence of Events". Please explain the sequence of events. You say fuse blows, tried the test wire, fuse does not blow, took off linkage fuse blows................we don't know when test wire was used during these events. Please advise when old hot wire was used and when new hot wire was used. We want you to use ONLY the test wire and a inline fuse on B. Confirm you have a wire directly from the battery to an inline fuse holder, out the holder to B.
Confirm that H, L and P wires go directly to the motor. Confirm if they go thru an inline connector or not. I understand that it looks like a binding issue or bad motor. BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We will be in a few minutes after you answer carefully. Don't guess that you did things right, actually look at the set up of your tests again with an open mind or you will not find a possible error.
STOP doing test that are not requested. If you know what you are doing, then you don't need help. I have reasons for each test and each question. It's troubleshooting. (from far away, it's not easy if you go off on your own) ONE TEST AT A TIME. Undisturbed parts and wires. Go back and answer EVERY question in my post, I was still adding to it. Then wait for reply. Before moving forward. I am right here, right now.
You are making HUGE CHANGES in your reporting "I followed your steps 1-5 below. In doing so the wipers did not turn on. The fuse did not blow." Then, just now you say "The motor ran briefly when the test wire from the battery to the fuse to the red B terminal was used. After several cycles, the fuse blew again."
This is not going well so far.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
Test wire from the battery to the inline fuse touching the L terminal.
The motor makes a straining sound. No motor movement.
Originally Posted by bartamos
STOP doing test that are not requested. If you know what you are doing, then you don't need help. I have reasons for each test and each question. It's troubleshooting. (from far away, it's not easy if you go off on your own) ONE TEST AT A TIME. Undisturbed parts and wires. Go back and answer EVERY question in my post, I was still adding to it. Then wait for reply. Before moving forward. I am right here, right now.
You are making HUGE CHANGES in your reporting "I followed your steps 1-5 below. In doing so the wipers did not turn on. The fuse did not blow." Then, just now you say "The motor ran briefly when the test wire from the battery to the fuse to the red B terminal was used. After several cycles, the fuse blew again."
With the limited answers and info reported, it seems you have bypassed the switch. You have bypassed the previous wiring and fuse. You have disconnected the linkage. You have proven that the motor is bad.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
With the limited answers and info reported, it seems you have bypassed the switch. You have bypassed the previous wiring and fuse. You have disconnected the linkage. You have proven that the motor is bad.
I don't know if this diagram is like your motor but it says "blocked spindle" 11.2 amps. Since it's blowing a 20 amp fuse, it sure looks like a bad motor.
If you do a search for New Port Engineering (newportwipers.com), you can "Google Map" the address (see attached picture). I'm definitely not against Free Enterprise but I would expect the wiper motor this business uses comes from company across the ocean. If you search for information on Ongaro you may find Alibaba.com which is a Chinese exporter of various items sold to the USA.
This motor may cost $39, for example, but you have to buy 100 of them to get 1.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
