The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Drove with the 216 (original eng) today.. wow impressions and questions

This truck has all original drivetrain as you know. Wow does it sound and drive nice. The engine sounds really distinct and the whole drivetrain makes a sort of whine that sounds so old school. Totally different from today's cars.

1. Is the trans that comes with the 216 geared real high in first gear? Seemed like it, when going up a incline on the back road it still needed speed to get up the hill, even in 1st.
2. Anyone who upgraded their engine to say.. 235, 261 or 292.. Did these characteristics change? Like if you change the rear to open rear and go sm420 trans? Does it keep that cool whining sound of the drivetrain?
2. Anyone who simply upgraded to a 235, did that give the truck enough power to go >50 MPH on the hwy while keeping the axles and rear original?

Thank you!

Most of the whine you're hearing is the straight-cut gears of the transmission. The SM-420 has constant-mesh helical gears and synchronizers that aren't nearly as noisy, except in 1st. and reverse gears. The 235 has more torque available, not necessarily more RPM. Both engines max out on HP somewhere in the 3600-3800 RPM range, but most stovebolters who never used these old rigs as daily drivers have the mistaken impression that they're going to start throwing pieces in all directions at any speed above a fast idle. Back when big rigs like yours worked for a living, they ran wide open in whatever gear would pull the load, all day- - -every day. Mt grandfather's drivers pulled trailer loads of beer from Milwaukee and St. Louis to Nashville with 1934 Chevy tractors with 207 engines with mechanical brakes on the tractors, and NO trailer brakes! RPM is what gives you road speed- - - -torque is what accelerates the vehicle after a shift. "There's no free lunch"- - - -either install a more torquey engine so there's more acceleration, or find a higher rear end gear ratio and more speeds in the transmission so the engine won't get lugged down trying to get more speed from an engine that can't pull enough torque to accelerate with the higher speed rear end.
Jerry

I agree with What Hotrod Lincoln said... if you’re on flat ground these engines and trans are adequate up to about 50MPH. And the whining you hear is due to the cut of the gears as he said. The 420 will have a little whine but nothing like the crashbox. You’ll need to practice to shift the crashbox using the double
Clutch method, only problem with that method is that it takes so long to shift that way your RPM will drop and the 216 lacks the torque to get the RPM back up again. On flat ground and empty, it’s doable, any kind of an incline and it’s a real challenge to upshift.

My biggest issue with the crashbox is downshifting.... I can get the upshifts with a little practice on backroads, but I can’t seem to downshift without grinding. So I’m going to swap in a 420 at some point and a more powerful engine. If I lived on flatland I wouldn’t necessarily “need” to.

1. Is the trans that comes with the 216 geared real high in first gear? Seemed like it, when going up a incline on the back road it still needed speed to get up the hill, even in 1st.

Answer: first is low. Very low, often called granny gear. Not sure the ratio. Info on these transmissions is difficult to find.

2. Anyone who upgraded their engine to say.. 235, 261 or 292.. Did these characteristics change? Like if you change the rear to open rear and go sm420 trans? Does it keep that cool whining sound of the drivetrain?

Many have upgraded, tons of threads here about engine swaps. Anything is more powerful than the 216 and the 261 can be swapped i. And made to look very original, probably fool 99% of people.

2. Anyone who simply upgraded to a 235, did that give the truck enough power to go >50 MPH on the hwy while keeping the axles and rear original
I don have experience with a 235 personally, but the difference in power from 216-235 isn’t a lot of both are stock. But if your talking a rebuilt 235 with cam, head work and dual carbs could be a decent upgrade.

I replaced my original non synchro trans with an SM 420. I had to coordinates the bell housing, starter, flywheel and shorten the driveshaft. I may be mistaken, but the bell housing for an sm 420 may bolt up to your 216. I was working with a 235. You may also have to deal with the clutch and brake pedal mounting. You could do anything from replacing the engine trans, and rear end for more speed to just learning to double clutch. If I remember correctly 1937 or 1938 was a year of change for the 216. You should probably confirm that you have the original engine. It is possible you may have a splash oil 235 or even a new 235/216.

My truck has stock rear end and transmission, and I travel 60 mph without difficulty. Tires are 215/85/16.

The transmission makes alot of noise, I often wear earplugs.

To answer your 2nd,2nd question. Forgive me for the dig, I'm running for the largest number of typo's on Stovebolt, I think Tiny mentioned that I have not been a member long enough. Your 2nd, 2nd question is yes as long as you have the truck 235 from 1954 up. Jerry what a great history regarding you Grandfathers drivers. I can't imagine driving rigs like that! Ed

They ran two types of trailers- - - -flatbeds for cases of bottled beer, and insulated box trailers for hauling iced-down kegs of draft. For some reason, one of their tractors could pull better than the other- - - -maybe a different rear end ratio? A sheriff in Kentucky would watch trucks pull a steep hill just outside of his town, and any truck that had to downshift to 1st. gear got pulled over and weighed. The town made a lot of money on "overweight" tickets. Now- - -here's the trick- - - -the truck that didn't pull so well got loaded right to the legal limit, and struggled up the hill, barely making it to the top in granny gear. While that one was being weighed, the better-running truck would sail by in 2nd. gear- - - -with a big overload! They got away with that for several years- - - -until Deputy Dawg got smart and weighed both trucks!
Jerry

Here are the ratios of the Crashbox 4-speed trans;

1st = 7.06:1
2nd = 3.48:1
3rd = 1.71:1
4th = 1:1 (direct)
R = 6.98:1

Mike B

It’s questionable if he has the crashbox or if he has a 3 speed.
He posted another thread th at said he had 3 forward gears. A 1.5 ton should only have had the 4 speed but you never know what someone could’ve swapped in over the years.

To the original poster, does your trans have a reverse lockout tab on the shifter handle?

Tony yes I think it does.. there is some sort lever on the side of the shifter.. does this indicate 4 speeds? Thank you all for your input.. I am absorbing.. wow the history and input here is priceless! I look forward to seeing all of you when I get this truck up to snuff.. And yes, I am keeping it as original as possible down to the bias ply it looks like.. For the exception of a 292 engine and sm420 trans with applicable rear.. Keeping the frame .. etc.. I also intend to keep the center (carrier?) bearing setup as is bc I like the way the truck pushes itself that way. By the way.. I had no problem shifting to what.. appears to be 1st to 2nd or double clutching.. and downshifting..feels like I was meant for it, on the 1st try. Again what appears to be the shift pattern below as mentioned on the driveline thread..

_ 1 3?
R 2 4?

I only got it to go from what appearsto be 1 and 2.. 1 seems to be able to go beyond 10MPH..sound right? the speedometer still works lol

I know this thread has been idle for a while but I just found it so I will weigh in. Jerry has confirmed what many have never thought about. These trucks worked their guts out when they were current models. If the driver had to scream his way up a hill in "big low" gear (my Dad's term), that's what he did to get the load delivered.
My 1936 1-1/2 ton has all original drive components. Fortunately it has the faster 5.43 gear ratio. It is pretty loud at 50 mph so I don't often drive at that speed. I like the way it sounds at 40 or 45 so that is my preferred speed. Besides, whats my hurry?
Before I found the original platform bed, my truck was set up with a fifth wheel and pulled my 20 ft. Fruehauf flatbed. Even with no deck on the trailer, the load was noticeable and performance suffered. If my original engine lays down, I might consider a re-power, but nothing beyond a 216. I like everything about my old vehicles. Sound, smell, ride, it's all part of the package for me. Here are a couple of pictures of my rig. One in each format. I hope you like it.

Mike

Unfortunately, no photos of my grandparents' rigs survived in any of the family albums I've seen. Their trucks were just "tools of the trade", which included delivering ice and coal, trucking dynamite to coal mines in east Tennessee and Kentucky, and hauling gravel with a dump truck they purchased new when Sewart Air Force Base was being built in Smyrna Tennessee prior to WW II. The dump truck ran 24/7, with two drivers working 12-hour shifts each. The gravel bed for the concrete runway was 4 feet thick to carry the weight of the bombers they expected to be based there.

In the mid-1930's depression days when "there were no jobs available", those folks kept their entire neighborhood employed- - - -at least the ones who weren't "earning" $2.00 a day leaning on a shovel for the WPA! They paid $4.00 for shoveling out a gondola car load of coal, which was about a 12-hour job, and it was not uncommon to have several carloads waiting to be unloaded, even at a pay rate that amounted to twice "minimum wage"! When the coal delivery business slowed down in the summertime, my grandfather would buy huge piles of sawmill slabs and keep his delivery drivers busy cutting them up into cookstove-sized fuel sticks that they sold along with their coal. Delivering ice from the plant they also owned was a year-round thing, as only the very rich could afford refrigerators- - - -most people had ice boxes that had to be refilled a couple of times a week, at least. My grandmother kept a pack of cigarettes in the coal yard office, although she never smoked- - - -selling them to her employees for a penny apiece if they couldn't afford a whole 15-cent pack. That was a nickel a pack profit, so every fourth one she bought was free! I have a feeling today's pampered snowflakes who refuse to take menial jobs would have starved to death back then!
Jerry

What confused me though.. I have been getting replies from it can be driven daily to - it will start clanging and clacking and falling apart. Perhaps "speed kills" and that was the mesg? If so, daily driving at 40-45 back roads shouldn't hurt it then... perhaps folks were trying to say >50 daily driven WILL kill it.. The engine does smoke and if I were to drive it, it may need a refresh.. cab says 41k miles IIRC. If I am going to refresh.. or rebuild the motor.. I am thinkin I should upgrade, which is what I am leaning toward.. 292.. I would keep the carrier bearing set up though..with inline-6 .. I think it should feel close to now but able to travel hwy.

Here's a little perspective on the highway speeds that your truck was designed for- - - -In the early 1950's, a skillful politician who was running for Governor of Tennessee courted a bunch of big-money donors from the trucking industry, by promising to raise the weight limit on Tennessee highways if they would finance his campaign. They did, and he won. He kept his promise- - - -raised the weight they could carry- - - -and then reminded the Highway Patrol big brass that "The truck speed limit is 45 MPH- - - -not 46!" Speeding fines were strictly enforced during his administration! Later, in the late 1950's and early 60's, trucks were finally allowed to drive on state highways at the breakneck speed of 55! Things stayed that way until the Interstate highway system came along!
Jerry

Mainly, its that people are totally nuts now on the bway. People want to race me all the time .. or hang at the edge of my bumper and egg me on. I will not race on the bway, period. The truck will be different but today I had to honk at two people swerving into my lane, well.. one making an unsafe lane change.. apparently relying on others horns before looking. The hwy has gone MadMax, which is why I am upgrading the power a bit. The good news is, if they hit the back of the truck on those razor thin lane changes people are making, their car gets hurt..

[edit] apologies for my rant lol. I will try to keep it positive!! I hope to get this truck going soon and just have some fun with it.