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Apr 26th, 2026 | | AD Chevy Trucks  Over 6,000 pictures Brad Allen has an awesome collection of Chevrolet factory pictures that he has set up from film strips. Check them out!
Lots of work on Brad's part ... pure enjoyment (and references) for you!
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with Ads!  Again, thanks!
| | | | Joined: Feb 2000 Posts: 177 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2000 Posts: 177 | What were they thinking?
Adios, Kip
Write On The Cross At The Head Of My Grave
To Whiskey And Women Here Lies A Poor Slave
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | That's the way the Model T did it, and Louis Chevrolet just copied Henry!
The concept of a torque tube puts the driving thrust near the center of the vehicle, instead of pushing the car/truck along with the rear springs. it's a complicated, and really unnecessary way to get the driving thrust to the frame. However, lots of manufacturers used the process, as late as the mid-60's American Motors cars. Furd quit using the design in 1948, and Chevrolet hung on until the early 50's.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,745 Member | | Member Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,745 | Were there open drivelines out already? I could see how a torque tube would be easier to make if you didn't have U joints that could hold up for any length of time.
54 3100 with 235
62 flatbed dump C60 with 261
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | Most of the torque tube systems got by with one u-joint, and it was enclosed where it could get better lubrication. Some of the really old stuff I've worked on had an open driveline, with some really oddball u-joint designs. Of course, most of the pre-1920 cars and trucks used a chain drive, even the original Mack trucks! Solid-rubber tires on that one, too!
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2000 Posts: 203 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Feb 2000 Posts: 203 | And, it stops tall grasses from wrapping around the driveshaft when you travel from field to field. | | | | | Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 543 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 543 | The last US car to use torque tubes were the 1967 AMC Marlins. When Hudson and Nash merged in 1954, their combined 1955 lines reflected Nash enclosed drivelines (Hudson always had open driveshafts from the '20's on). Very functional, but a maintenance headache when it was needed.
Pessimist - Sees glass as half-empty. Optimist - Sees glass as half-full. Gov't- Sees glass and takes it from you because you have a glass.
Political Correctness: A philosophical belief system bereft of common sense and logic, that supports and rewards ignorance and stupidity.
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 384 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 384 | Kip--
Wadda ya say--poor enginneerin---the 3/4 tons werent too bad; but Hotchkiss be much better.
Buzz'n Half Dozen
| | | | | Joined: May 2001 Posts: 7,438 Extreme Gabster | | Extreme Gabster Joined: May 2001 Posts: 7,438 | Little known fact: Louis Chevrolet had nothing to do with the car Billy Durant marketed as a Chevrolet. He designed a much more elaborate and expensive car. Durant wanted something to compete with Henry. He put Chevrolet's famous name, which he already owned, on a competitively priced auto. Chevrolet's car was never produced. He ended his association with Durant and tried to go into auto manufaturing on his own but failed. Durant retained rights to he name. | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | What were they thinking? Maybe, "It works - reliably." From ChevyTrucks.org And, from Jim Carter's wbsite: Closed Driveshafts Forever Occasionally we hear owners condemning the closed drive shaft system used in the 1/2 ton trucks prior to 1955. After questioning the negative comment, we almost always discover the real criticism is the low gearing of the ring and pinion in the differential. Yes, this lower gear ratio was created more for slower roads of year gone by, but it is by far not a poorly designed system. In fact, it is questioned if there has ever been drive shaft and u-joint combinations that exceed the durability of this GM quality engineered closed unit. Over 50% of the surviving older 1/2 ton pickups continue to use their original closed systems. Of these, the majority have had little or no servicing other than keeping lubrications in the transmission and differential. Consider this when you realize the last GM closed drive shaft system was produced in 1954. Many others have been in irregular service prior to the 1920’s. Also remember that many 1/2 ton pickups were often given abuse far in excess of the manufacturer’s recommendations. What modern open drive shaft system has been able to compare with this unsurpassed record? None!! Sure, the newer open u-joints are easier to change. They better be. They require attention or replacement so much more frequently! Another Example of GM Quality!!! We recently received the following comment from John Berkeley Ball. He also confirms the quality of the General Motor's 1/2 ton closed drive shaft and differential. Dear Jim Carter Thanks for your excellent articles. One very pertinent point I feel that you should mention about closed drive shafts is their absolute impervability to rear spring wind up. Used on the farm over soft ground with heavy loads, you could not afford to send your rear end into drive breaking pulsations every time you lost traction, whether the shocks were worn out or not (some were single action any way). What a huge advantage over the Hotchkiss rear end! this is an often unknown design attribute that Chevy engineers were unfoundedly maligned for - at least by today's city slickers... John Ball You may relate comments to this web site or Mr. Ball direct at [email protected]. (sorry about cut/paste from JC site, he does not make linking to his site very useful) Tim | | | | | Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 384 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 384 | Interesting piece Tim--Ive read that Patrick Dykes is a proponent of torque tubes as well--I've always preferred open drivelines--but hey I'm no enginneer. I sometimes wonder if purist tendicies don't influence this debate/ :p
Buzz'n Half Dozen
| | | | | Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 379 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 379 | Waz on this job one time where an electrician took the jumbo size tie wraps and put a whole bunch on this loudmouth's driveshaft. Job lets us out into downtown rush hour traffic, but just several crawling blocks until the interstate. Poor bloke thought all hell was breaking loose on his jacked up import 4x once he stepped on it. With a torque tube, things would have been nice and quiet!  | | | | | Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,571 | Aren't there some late-model foreign cars that still have torque-tube driveshafts? It seems like Jaguar might have been messing with them a few years ago... :confused: | | | | | Joined: May 2000 Posts: 424 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: May 2000 Posts: 424 | If you've ever seen a 800hp sprint car run lately, you've seen a modern torque tube in action. | | | | | Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 962 Shop Shark | | Shop Shark Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 962 | The TT in my '54 sedan has been fairly trouble free, except for the u-joint nuts backing out. The only problem I've had out of the rear end was one axle shaft twisted in half at the spider gear. But I do notice that the car handles slightly different than other RWD cars, maybe due to how the TT applies motive force to the frame.
Preaching the Hot Rod Gospel according to the 4-stroke apostles:
Suck, Squish, Fire and Fumes
| | | | | Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 620 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 620 | What Fatfenders said; In the old days we preferred the closed drive shaft in Florida grass lands. I used my 54-3100 for that after it's first restoration in 1977. We had to survey our tobacco field and it was full of wire grass. My brother in law had a new Silverado it was all wrapped up. It took a few minutes and a sharp knife to undo but, the rear u-joint lost a cap. Taped it up with wire and drove slow to the bunk house. Drove the 54 to NAPA. Does not happen often but here a skid guard is still a necessity around Okeechobee. Doc
Currently making 1954 3100 better than new and Genetics
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 238 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 238 | I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a dependable and reliable system. That isn’t it’s weakness today. Today’s issues with torque tubes are that they often leak, and parts are extremely difficult to find. Add to that the extremely limited gear ratios available now that it has been out of production for over 50 years.... the durability isn’t the issue. The issue is your stuck with it exactly as it is right now, leaking and nearly impossible to find parts/gears for. What were they thinking? Maybe, "It works - reliably." From ChevyTrucks.org And, from Jim Carter's wbsite: Closed Driveshafts Forever Occasionally we hear owners condemning the closed drive shaft system used in the 1/2 ton trucks prior to 1955. After questioning the negative comment, we almost always discover the real criticism is the low gearing of the ring and pinion in the differential. Yes, this lower gear ratio was created more for slower roads of year gone by, but it is by far not a poorly designed system. In fact, it is questioned if there has ever been drive shaft and u-joint combinations that exceed the durability of this GM quality engineered closed unit. Over 50% of the surviving older 1/2 ton pickups continue to use their original closed systems. Of these, the majority have had little or no servicing other than keeping lubrications in the transmission and differential. Consider this when you realize the last GM closed drive shaft system was produced in 1954. Many others have been in irregular service prior to the 1920�s. Also remember that many 1/2 ton pickups were often given abuse far in excess of the manufacturer�s recommendations. What modern open drive shaft system has been able to compare with this unsurpassed record? None!! Sure, the newer open u-joints are easier to change. They better be. They require attention or replacement so much more frequently! Another Example of GM Quality!!! We recently received the following comment from John Berkeley Ball. He also confirms the quality of the General Motor's 1/2 ton closed drive shaft and differential. Dear Jim Carter Thanks for your excellent articles. One very pertinent point I feel that you should mention about closed drive shafts is their absolute impervability to rear spring wind up. Used on the farm over soft ground with heavy loads, you could not afford to send your rear end into drive breaking pulsations every time you lost traction, whether the shocks were worn out or not (some were single action any way). What a huge advantage over the Hotchkiss rear end! this is an often unknown design attribute that Chevy engineers were unfoundedly maligned for - at least by today's city slickers... John Ball You may relate comments to this web site or Mr. Ball direct at [email protected]. (sorry about cut/paste from JC site, he does not make linking to his site very useful) Tim What were they thinking? Maybe, "It works - reliably." From ChevyTrucks.org And, from Jim Carter's wbsite: Closed Driveshafts Forever Occasionally we hear owners condemning the closed drive shaft system used in the 1/2 ton trucks prior to 1955. After questioning the negative comment, we almost always discover the real criticism is the low gearing of the ring and pinion in the differential. Yes, this lower gear ratio was created more for slower roads of year gone by, but it is by far not a poorly designed system. In fact, it is questioned if there has ever been drive shaft and u-joint combinations that exceed the durability of this GM quality engineered closed unit. Over 50% of the surviving older 1/2 ton pickups continue to use their original closed systems. Of these, the majority have had little or no servicing other than keeping lubrications in the transmission and differential. Consider this when you realize the last GM closed drive shaft system was produced in 1954. Many others have been in irregular service prior to the 1920�s. Also remember that many 1/2 ton pickups were often given abuse far in excess of the manufacturer�s recommendations. What modern open drive shaft system has been able to compare with this unsurpassed record? None!! Sure, the newer open u-joints are easier to change. They better be. They require attention or replacement so much more frequently! Another Example of GM Quality!!! We recently received the following comment from John Berkeley Ball. He also confirms the quality of the General Motor's 1/2 ton closed drive shaft and differential. Dear Jim Carter Thanks for your excellent articles. One very pertinent point I feel that you should mention about closed drive shafts is their absolute impervability to rear spring wind up. Used on the farm over soft ground with heavy loads, you could not afford to send your rear end into drive breaking pulsations every time you lost traction, whether the shocks were worn out or not (some were single action any way). What a huge advantage over the Hotchkiss rear end! this is an often unknown design attribute that Chevy engineers were unfoundedly maligned for - at least by today's city slickers... John Ball You may relate comments to this web site or Mr. Ball direct at [email protected]. (sorry about cut/paste from JC site, he does not make linking to his site very useful) Tim | | | | | Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,214 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 6,214 | Pulled a 16 year old thread out of mothballs...lol Mike B  | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a dependable and reliable system. That isn’t it’s weakness today. Today’s issues with torque tubes are that they often leak, and parts are extremely difficult to find. Add to that the extremely limited gear ratios available now that it has been out of production for over 50 years.... the durability isn’t the issue. The issue is your stuck with it exactly as it is right now, leaking and nearly impossible to find parts/gears for. - What parts are hard to find? - 3.55 and 4.11 final drive ratio R&P are readily available - no leaks, if you are careful If you want more/faster: yes, you (or, your local/reliable/knowledgeable truck shop) would need to replace a lot of parts (at what cost?).  | | | | | Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 238 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2019 Posts: 238 | Mine is a 1.5 ton Eaton H110 with 6.17 gears and Leaking torque tube. I can’t find any parts for mine, thus why I’m switching the pumpkin out for a 5.43 open driveline pumpkin. Smaller trucks may have more parts available. | | | | | Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,983 Sir Searchalot | | Sir Searchalot Joined: May 2005 Posts: 8,983 | Pulled a 16 year old thread out of mothballs...lol Mike B Last post by Splashoil was 11 years ago. Don't think he cares about torque tube anymore. This is what sequester has done to us.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | Carmakers converted their production to open drivelines because of the "baby chicken" concept- - - - - -open drivelines are "CHEEP- - - - -CHEEP- - - - -CHEEP" to manufacture. They're nowhere near as reliable or durable as a well-designed torque tube, but they cost a lot less to make. Today's cars and trucks aren't made to last much beyond the warranty period, so open drivelines and multiple universal joints work well when they're expected to last "the life of the vehicle"- - - -which is engineered to be six months past the warranty coverage!
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 554 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 554 | A little off topic but Corvette started using torque tubes from 1997 to at least 2019. Not sure if the 2020 model still uses them with the relocated engine. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | 3rd.-generation Camaro and Firebird used an oddball setup with an open driveline and a long torque-reaction arm that was bolted to the rear axle housing and was anchored to a pivot point near the rear of the transmission. It served much of the same purpose as a torque tube without needing the precision machining involved in manufacturing a completely enclosed driveshaft. Ford used a torque tube rear axle on cars and light duty trucks from the 1920's Model T to 1948.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,098 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,098 | How about the infamous 61-63 Pontiac Tempest. It used a torque tube with the torque converter hanging off the rear. Not a great car.
They got it right in 64 however.
Fred
1956 3100 Pickup/Red/350/3sp OD/PS/Disc Brakes
1957 Bel Air Sport Coupe/Red/355/TH350/PS/Disc Brakes
2017 Silverado LT Single Cab SB/Black/5.3/6 Speed Trans
1947 Willys CJ2A w/F-Head engine
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | Somewhere at General Motors headquarters there's a rubber room with a raving lunatic engineer locked up inside. Every now and then, he escapes and designs a vehicle. He's probably the guy responsible for such epic failures as the Corvair, the Tempest, the Vega, and a few other colossal flops from GM! The Tempest was a particularly stinky one- - - - -half a Pontiac V8, with a timing chain that would stretch so badly that it wore holes in the timing cover, and enough of a vibration problem that it unscrewed properly-torqued bolts, plus a curved solid driveshaft running under the floorboard at engine speed to the rear-mounted transaxle. That one had to be the bat-crap crazy engineer's crowning achievement! Running cast iron plated pistons in contact with aluminum cylinder walls in the Vega was a pretty close second, however!
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,075 Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums | | Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,075 | You forgot about the GM 6.2L diesel, Jerry. That same engineer decided he could convert a gasser to a diesel engine which resulted in a POS.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truckFollow this saga in Project JournalPhotos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | There were some killer drag race alcohol/nitro engines built on the 6.2 Diesel block, however. It was beefed up in places that kept it together better than the gas version with lots of blower boost. The GM Toro-Flow was an attempt to convert the GMC gasoline V6 to Diesel- - - -it was a colossal flop. When it finally hit the market, the only parts that interchanged with the gas engine were the oil pan and valve covers!
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,456 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,456 | You forgot about the GM 6.2L diesel, Jerry. That same engineer decided he could convert a gasser to a diesel engine which resulted in a POS. The 6.2 wasn't a converted gas engine, you are thinking of the 5.7N olds 350. Made lots of money on those beasts, probably seen more of those scatter than anything else in almost 40 years now at dealership. The 5.7 was available in 1/2 t 2wd pickups thru '81, had a 500 lb payload. The also made a V6 4.3 based on the V8, had more head bolts but still --- The 6.2 diesel was bore out to 6.5L & went to the biggest pos EFI system, the DS series Standyne pump in '94. Thankfully, Isuzu came to the rescue in '2001 with the 6.6 duramax.
BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
1960 C60 pasture art
Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2020 Posts: 114 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Mar 2020 Posts: 114 | high school 1972, we put a new clutch in my friends Rambler Ambassador SS, it had an enclosed drive shaft, we had to drop the whole rear end and slide it back, what a pain
woof359 Family 1952 3100 5 Window
| | | | | Joined: Nov 1995 Posts: 5,723 24601 | | 24601 Joined: Nov 1995 Posts: 5,723 | We actually found a Toroflow diesel during one of our ODSS Junkyard Tours (At Frankie's). None of us knew much of anything about them, but we got excited when we saw that it was a GM diesel .... and then after 30 minutes of standing there while Prof. Grigg (III) educated us, we all understood why it was there in the junkyard. But we amazed that it was *still* in the junkyard and had not been converted to back into a steel ingot ... A lot of iron to move around, but it could have been had for scrap price and would have completed anyone's engine collection -- it could sit next to the gas V-12 engine in the "What were they thinking?" department. Jerry ... What was so bad about the Corvair? Other than it was an over-baked copy of a very fine German car?? I'm still holding out for a Hebmüller or a Schwimmwagen And when I find one ... You all can bid me auf Wiedersehen. The funny thing is, I'll probably find one long before Ron ever pulls the trigger on a Plymouth ...  Ja
~ John A kid raised on Hotwheels, Matchbox and Tonka cannot be reasonably expected to own only one vehicle as an adult. 1949 Chevrolet 3804In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum1973 IH 1310 Dump1963 Kaiser M38A12001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie"2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley) | | | | | Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,075 Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums | | Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,075 | The Corvair, with it's independent rear suspension was the impetus for the "Unsafe at Any Speed" book by Ralph Nader. In a too high speed corner, the outboard rear wheel tended to tuck under, causing a rollover.
I don't know who designed the Army's M151 Jeep, but it had the same issues. To get a licence endorsement to drive one, you had to sit thru a class where they drummed into your head that you couldn't take ANY corner at more than 25 MPH.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truckFollow this saga in Project JournalPhotos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together. | | | | | Joined: Nov 1995 Posts: 5,723 24601 | | 24601 Joined: Nov 1995 Posts: 5,723 | Hmmmm ... Not according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). In a July, 1972 report of its two-year investigation of the 1960-1963 Corvair, it found that "The handling and stability performance of the 1960-1963 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles, both foreign and domestic." Read the original report here. All Ralph Nader proved was that given enough lateral acceleration beyond the moment arm, you can make any car roll.
~ John A kid raised on Hotwheels, Matchbox and Tonka cannot be reasonably expected to own only one vehicle as an adult. 1949 Chevrolet 3804In the Legacy Gallery | In the Gallery Forum1973 IH 1310 Dump1963 Kaiser M38A12001 International/AmTran RE3000 "Skoolie"2014 Ford E-350 4x4 (Quigley) | | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | Thanks for posting that information, John
I was reluctant to post that link and others.
If the tire PSIs were correct, the "problem" was not significant.
The front and rear tire PSIs were significantly different.
"The Corvair relied on an unusually high front to rear pressure differential (15psi front, 26psi rear, when cold; 18 psi and 30psi hot), and if one inflated the tires equally, as was standard practice for all other cars at the time, the result was a dangerous oversteer" | | | | | Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 Crusing in the Passing Lane | | Crusing in the Passing Lane Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 | If one knows how to drive, no problems. I had a '64 wagon, liked it.
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
| | | | | Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 Bubba - Curmudgeon | | Bubba - Curmudgeon Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 29,269 | | | | | | Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 Crusing in the Passing Lane | | Crusing in the Passing Lane Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,096 |
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,814 | From the viewpoint of a mechanic, not necessarily the driving public, a Corvair was the spawn of Satan! They were notorious for developing hard to fix oil leaks- - - -prone to overheating when run for long distances at highway speed, and the only thing worse than keeping the dual carbs synchronized was attempting to get four carbs on the Spyder version playing nice with each other. Then there was the incredibly hard-shifting 2-speed automatic transmission, or the 4-speed manual model with a shifter that felt like a piece of limp spaghetti. As was mentioned above, just a few pounds of wrong tire pressure turned the things into a death trap. A cross leaf spring called a "camber compensator" usually kept the things from getting up on their tiptoes in a hard turn. Following an non-compensated Corvair into a high speed turn or a slalom was at least as frightening to the guy in the back as it was to the driver. One of the guys in the Okinawa Sports Car Club insisted on campaigning one in the autocrosses we ran, and it was entertaining to watch his elbows flailing as he muscled the thing around some of the traffic cone courses we laid out.
Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,377 Ex Hall Monitor | | Ex Hall Monitor Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,377 | A little off topic but Corvette started using torque tubes from 1997 to at least 2019. Not sure if the 2020 model still uses them with the relocated engine. I was wondering if anyone was going to mention that. When touring the Corvette plant a few years ago I was surprised to see the cars with torque tubes. Not being a Corvette fan I had no clue.
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet.
The three main causes of blindness: Cataracts, Politics, Religion.
Name your dog Naked so you can walk Naked in the park.
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2019 Posts: 4,483 AD Addict & Tinkerer | | AD Addict & Tinkerer Joined: Feb 2019 Posts: 4,483 | My first car that I got on the road was a ‘62 Corvair coupe. Twin carb 6 cylinder 80 HP pancake engine that my best friends father bought for me for $85 in exchange for grafting a ‘65 VW convertibles front sheet metal (unibody) on and painting it so he could flip it. One carb float valve stuck in the closed position and at idle it sounded perfect but as soon as you pressed on the gas it wouldn’t go anywhere. That baffled me for awhile because it wasn’t shaking and ran as smooth as silk (it was only running on one bank of three cylinders). I eventually figured it out when I put my hand over one carb and it didn’t make any difference in how it sounded. It would smoke out the interior when you ran the heat. There were o-rings that sealed tubes that the push rods would run thru. They would dry out, leak on the finned heat/cooling fins (for those that don’t know, it was an air cooled engine). The whole rear pan was rusted out and it was only an 8 year old car. That would be the equivalent of a 2012 car today. I think that they have advanced a bit on the engineering of cars today.
I did a cob job on the rust, painted it light blue with black racing stripes and equipped it with some Thrush mufflers. It was loud in both the paint and sound but it didn’t go.
Now, in defense of the Corvair, it was a fun car to drive. Up until the point that the rear axle would tuck under (I experienced that fright a few times in corners that I took way too fast), it handled like a dream. It would out corner most cars on the road at that time. The turbo charged 150 HP Spider must have been a blast to drive.
Unfortunately, the front shock mount broke due to rust. I didn’t want to fix it so I sold it at a loss. As to an education? PRICELESS!
Last edited by Phak1; 06/15/2020 12:46 PM.
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc BrakesProject JournalsStovebolt Gallery Forum | | |
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