The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop clean up head using brake cleaner?

Will the "spray and clean" type brake cleaner damage head components (valves, guides, seats, etc.)? Or is it okay to use?
I want to remove oil sludge from the top and sides of the head and (if possible) at least SOME of the deposits from the valves without removing the valves.

Oh yeah, the head is OFF the engine. Thanks!

-wftyler

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: ftyler ]

Might be better to diassemble the head to clean it properly.The baked on carbon on the valves is real stubborn, generally requiring a mechanical means like a wire brush for cleaning.The sludge and carbon loosened by the cleaner might find its way into the guides.I know guys who throw an assembled head into the parts cleaner, pull it out some what cleaner and say its good to go.

You can use carb cleaner or Acetone (it's the same thing). The only problem is that it eats rubber, so don't use it unless you replace the valve stem seals. Brake cleaner might do the same thing. It isn't quite as good as degreasing, its main purpose is to flush away the brake dust.

Take it to the car wash or someone with a steam cleaner. When its as clean as you want, spray it down with WD-40 to stop the rust. Since the head is off, why not put new valve seals on and lap the valves? This is easy and a good set down job. Joe

How difficult is removing the valves? Is it something that a fast-learning, somewhat mechanically competent first-timer could do?

SUPPOSEDLY the head had been rebuilt within the last 5-7k miles, but the valve deposits say otherwise. I wanted to remove the valves to check the guides and seals.

Thanks,
wftyler

You should be able to rent a valve-spring compressor at a good parts store or a rental place.when you take them out, make sure you get every piece back in the same spot it came from.Keep #1 valve,springand other parts involved,back in the #1 spot.do the same with #2 and #3.Some people will use a piece of cardboard and mark the appropriate #s to keep things in order.A piece of wood with holes drilled in it works better.

Your playin with fire. If your not rebuildin the motor just take a little kero and wash it off with a paint brush a little than blow it off with compressed air. Dont take the head apart if you dont have the tools or knowledge unless you plan on spendin cash. Another little trick to see if the valves seal is to put kero in the ports and see how much is leaking out of the seats.If its leakin your toast.Take it to a pro if you want to save money.If there are deposits on the valves than the rings are most likly bad also or guides(did you get the head off another motor??)

Phat,,,,,,, how did you learn??????

Worked in a machine shop for free when i was 13 years old. I bet you learned on company time.(no one would pay me at 12-14 years old)
There is a time for learning and there is a time for getting help.I have seen this problem many times. If you need to learn go to the machine shop and learn on a cracked head.It aint like when we were young.cost use what... 20 bucks to do a valve job??

I was lucky enough to be able to rebuild engines in shop class at the high-school.
Now they are all closed departments,hell the local college does not even have automotive classes anymore!!!!!
they had a really good ,well equipped shop too!
They are barely teaching our kids how to live anymore!!! :mad:

I signed up for a welding class in one of the colleges around here so i could get certified on the Tig.The day i was supposed to start they called me an one other guy that was going to go with me and said the class is canceled. They said only 3 people signed up.Man when i was kid i could not even get into that class.The teacher at the time let me come because he knew i would be on the street causin troble if i was not in school.

I REALLY appreciate teachers like that. I had my english teacher hunt me down while I was working on something in the automotive shop just so I could finish a paper to get the grade He knew I could get.He knew I was knowledgeable enough, I just wasn` interested in the class.

I was down in the shop working on the rear end of my 64 impala,brakes and bearings

Times have changed. Today technology and efficiency rules.

It's probably why American automakers are some of the few dinosaurs left that still mass produce pushrod engines.

I listen to all you old timers talk and hate to agree with you, but I can't find any local kids to help with any of my projects. I'm not 30 yet, but have worked all my life (got my first paying job when I was still in grade school and have been workin' ever since).

In my neighberhood, there are dozens of kids, half of which would do well to learn something (mechanics, construction, etc...) from someone who might pay them a few bucks to help out, but you'd think I was askin' them to play with toxic waste...

On the other hand, I remember being too cool :rolleyes: to spend the available time learnin rather than "hangin' out". I could cry when I think of the amount of time I wasted in wood or metal shop over the years...

When I grew it was expected of the boys to work with their dads. By the time I was 5 I was sitting on the steps sorting buckets of fasteners by size and thread. Dad was a liason engineer on flight line at Boeing, he would fill his pockets at the scrap bin with bolts that couldn't be returned to the crib. I could tell you the difference between a jo-bolt, huck bolt, shear head, tension head, slews of washers and nuts. i learned the basics of math playing dominoes and cards. I was 8 or 9 when I helped on my first brake job. Now the kids whine when they can't sit in front of the tube and play with the latest video game system. And their dads aren't much better. Right now I am teaching my teenage stepsons how to hang sheetrock.

After I had quit college and saved some money after driving trucks, I apprenticed under the best mechanic in town for 6 months for free. Since then I have learned a lot more and have held jobs doing a lot of different kinds of mechanical work. 20 years ago I settled down into a role of airframe design, and am still learning something nearly every day. I am currently working on the transfer of the 757 production line from Seattle to Wichita.

Here we go!!!!!Kids TODAY????

The kid that helps me is 50

Phat didn't tell us about the 'Ball-peen'Valve job.You smack the top of the valve til it knocks all the carbon off
If it's a 216 you can take the head off and use the ball end on the valve face
Phat which flavor of Karo do you use?We got Clear and Brown here!!I'm not beraggin here just askin.....

Way back when I was a young un,( did I really say that)when something broke in the nieghborhood, every boy that could be found was given an instant lesson on whatever it was. ( plumbing, auto repair, electrical,painting,wood refinishing.)It didn't matter you were going to learn how to fix it. Now years later I can take care of just about anything I need to. Some kids today want to learn some don't. My son wants to but his mother doesn't want him anywhere near me, she's afraid I'll teach him something, she hated the cars/trucks, so I seldom see him anymore. He's an honor roll student athlete in high school. Hopefully He'll use that brain later and do well in life, I'm sure later on well spend time again when he's old enough to do what he wants. :rolleyes:

DAMMIT JIM!!!! I1m a DOCTOR,not a Mechanic!!

Ball-Peen hammer? Now I know why I couldn`t get those valves to seat , I was usineg the wron tool!


Tommy,,, If she hates cars,, let her walk!!!

Well I'm going to try to bring the thread back to Ftyler's question. Since this is your first go-round maybe you should just clean the head with "kero" like Phat suggested and button her back up. My first question is how come you tore it down? Now Phat says you're playing with fire but didn't explain why. The reason you are playing with fire if you go to rebuilding just the head and reseating the valves is- this will increase the compression in the cylinder and there-by increase the pressure on the rings and bearings. The rings and bearings are used to operating at the old pressure and when this suddenly increases on them they will begin to wear heavily. I have had many people want "just a head or valve job" and I have advised them against this. I will not gaurentee just a head job on an old engine. It just won't work. You may be able to just lap in a valve or two and sneak by for a time, but otherwise you do need to do a complete rebuild. The reason that I suggest a person do their own rebuild versus a crate engine is multifold- first, I trust my work over somebody elses that I know nothing about (it is my engine so I know I will care more). Second, I like to know what is happening inside of "my" engine, and only by doing the work myself can this really be true. Third- there is the feeling of self-worth and pride (when you are driving down the road hearing an engine purr that you built yourself- Ahhh there is no finer feeling.) Fourth- there is the "learning" that takes place (it isn't as complicated as it seems, shucks if I can teach others how to rebuild their engine over the internet it really couldn't be to difficult to figure out)(and Phat can even do it- go figure.). If you decide to follow on and do your engine correct and rebuild it there are a few necessary things you "must" have- Locate a good parts house and have a good line of comunications with them on what you are doing. Locate and talk to a good (excellent) machinist in your area. Beg, borrow, buy or steal a shop manual for your engine, (a good place to look is on e-bay). Cojole or wheedle someone such as myself or Phat (Bruce) or Tony into tutoring you through this process. Just so that you have found someone with the expertise to help keep you from making mistakes, and also ask plenty of questions on the BB (there are many folks who know lots of cool tricks that can really help on this Board.) Do your engine right "keep it simple and go slow" and you will have an engine that will last a life time.

Do not- I reiterate- Do not rebuild the head without rebuilding the rest of the engine. (You'll be sorry).

OILY

What kinda Kero...Brown,clear,or Cajun Red?
How can I do this without knowing what to pour
on.

And make sure you dispose of the used kerosene properly.

I can't agree with everything the others have said.
You still haven't said why the head is off.
As for tearing in to the head, these are the easiest engines to work on. The rest of you had to start somewhere, why can't he? I say go ahead and take one or two valves out, read your manual, and follow the directions. Just don't let the valve spring head you in the head or something.

The new heads on a old engine is very true, you can make matters worse. But new valve seals won't make the engine wear out any faster. Most it will do is slow down the oil burning. Anyhow, its not likely you will ever drive it enough to wear it out.

If you don't think you can do it, then don't. Part of working on stuff is the fun of doing it your self. I would much rather say I did something, right or wrong, than say I paid so and so.

This is a long way from your original question. Us a good biodegradable degreaser and very hot water. You can also use the kero, then degreaser to get rid of the residue.

I guess what I am trying to say is don't back away from a challenge. Go head first and get dirty. Learn how stuff works and why. Heck, just take one out and put it back just to show yourself you can. Your local machinest can always put it back together.

Everybody has there own opinion on what is right and wrong. Its your job to figure out who to go to and who to stay away from. Ask as many questions as it takes till you are satisfied with the results. Its you truck, and your engine. Do as you wish.

As for doing only a valve-job, it does and can work ,,,,depending on the condition of the rest of the engine.
If the engine is so far gone that the compression will increase from a valve-job enough to do damage to the rest of the engine, the whole thing needed to be rebuilt anyway!!!!!

Go ahead and work on it, play with it and learn.

Oly will help you put it back together over the internet!

You guys have made some excellent points about doing the whole thing. I'll probably just find a short block and start a complete rebuild. I've been holding out to find a good 292 core but I'm having no luck at all. 250s are in abundance in this area. I was even offered one for free. 292s are a different story.

I've hit every junkyard within 30 miles of Douglasville and only 2-292s. Both sitting out in the weather.

Joe H, I bought the head off somebody, I didn't remove it from my engine.

I guess a 250, built properly, would be strong enough to provide a *little* show off power for a '66 c10 shortbed stepside. For performance I kinda see it (the 250) as more more suitable for a car.

Thanks guys,
-wftyler

ftyler If you want to provide a *little* show off power. The 250 or 292 aint the way to go.It aint old eneogh to be impressive or powerful enoegh.If you want to t provide a *little* show off power you need to go the V-8 route.The inline 6 is good milage,cheap to fix ,reliable motor nothing more.Its not a power house and never will be.Yah sure, you might find 4 in the whole nation that go real fast,but it cost big bucks and is usally done so the person can sell parts or services' for inline motors. Dont get me wrong i love these little motors and have choose to keep one in my personal toy but its never gonna have show off power.If you must have a 292 just tell everybody it is .Most wont know the diff.Wish i knew these 292 were worth so much as i sh*t canned 3 of them back in july,no one wanted them.I only kept the 69 c-10 with a V-8 and i just gave that away today.(without ex manifolds)

Ftyler,

Some good ideas throughout here; I had the head redone on my 97,000 mile'72 250, and put her back together and am driving her, and while I'm sure that she's not getting oil past the guides, I am becoming more and more aware of the slop in the bearings and pistons; she's due for a complete overhaul.

I had a '64 Chevy C-10 short-step about 12 years ago; bought her off the back of the local Chevy dealer's used car lot: an old buck traded it in on an used S-10. I got it for the princely sum of $195.00 .

It had a tired 230, but would still "jump" a little bit in first gear; even spin the tires a little, but she wouldn't win any drag races, best I'd get was a couple of car-legnths when a light changed, then the kids would catch-up and blast by.
But mine was "paid-for" :p !

Phat obviously our perspectives of "little" in terms of power differ. Very obviously.

By choice I want to get the best bang for the buck out of a six. It's not an issue of money, but personal preference.

If I wanted a LOT of show off power I could easily have one of the many locally respected engine builders throw me together a mean 400+ HP small block for $3k.

My sister's boyfriend has been trying for months to talk me into going ahead and buying a crate 350 and be done with it but so far I've refused. But this weekend I'm going to give a lot of thought about what my long term goals are with my project and make my final engine decision with that in mind.

-ftyler

If you want to listen to the voices in your head, don't waste your time with a crate 350. Drop the big bucks for a 502, slap on a supercharger, and blow somebody's doors off. Course you could hop up a 292 or a 250, to.

To satisfy whom?

Amazingly the voices in my head are telling you something different from what they're telling me. :confused:

Again I'll decide this weekend.

-ftyler

Sounds like the head needs cleaning