The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1950 4400

Hi guys
I joined this forum many years ago but I am a much bigger reader than a poster. But the time has finally come. I was able to acquire a 1950 4400. It is in very rough shape right now, and I’m not entirely sure what direction I’m going to be going in on it. The engine is currently stuck but the clutch and transmission seem to be in good shape. The wheels turn freely and the brakes kinda work. There isn’t any usable wiring left at all. My plan for now is to try getting the engine free. If I can get it moving then I will start replacing ignition and fuel systems to try getting it running.
My first question it how do I identify what engine I have ? And how do I identify the type of carb is on it.

I’m not all that computer savvy and I don’t have a computer at all. I use my phone and my iPad. I know many of my questions have probably already been asked and answered but I never seem to be able to find what I’m looking for! Also if anyone can point me in the right direction I would like to post pictures if possible.
More to come !!
Thank you !
Dan

Welcome!
For info on posting pictures look in the lower left corner of this page.

Find the number that's stamped (not cast) on the machined pad just to the rear of the distributor and post that for us. Most likely a 1950 big truck would have left the factory with a spray-oiler 235 engine, but there's no telling what might have been installed since then. If it's got a sheet metal side cover on the passenger's side that extends up over the cylinder head and the spark plugs and 2 bolts in the center of the valve cover, it's either a 216 or an early 235. A short side cover and 4 bolts at the edges of the valve cover would probably make it a later model 235. The block casting number down near the fuel pump and the stamping I mentioned before will ID it accurately.
Jerry

Thank you I didn’t see that I’ll give posting pictures a try tonight

Send one of us some photos and we will post them for you. We are always anxious to see photos of these old beauties! My Email is [email protected]

If I can’t figure it out I will but I want to try figuring out how to work it

Good job, the photos are great! So if that is a US motor, it is a 1950 to 1952, low pressure 235. That motor is unique to those years. In Canada we had 216s of the same design. The truck looks like it wants to do serious work! Congratulations on your new addition.

The truck served as a sign for a local business for the last 40 years! I’m fairly sure the original engine is in it. It was still running when it became a sign but hasn’t run since the day it was parked around 78-79. I also have a photo copy of the original title issued in 1950.
It is very rough so I plan to just do little things at a time. Starting with getting the engine unstuck. After that I will get the starter rebuilt clean and rebuild the carb and replace the entire ignition system. Then hopefully I will have a runner. Does anyone know if there are print versions of repair manuals available anywhere. I have only been able to find online versions that don’t seem very helpful.
Also here’s a picture of the driver side of the engine

I wrote another post yesterday with another picture and it never showed up on the thread

I’ll try it again here’s the driver side of the engine.
The oil cap is missing since who knows when and some mice had taken up residence under the valve cover. So I’m thinking I’m going to pull the head to make sure nothing is in any of the cylinders and see how bad the rust is in there. So are the head bolts reusable?

If you want to know the casting year/years, and the original application, post the codes shown on this page:

1. Engine Serial Number
2. Block casting code
3. Block date casting code
4. Head casting code
5. Head date casting code

And the Vehicle Serial Number/ID on the plate on the cab between the driver's side door hinges.

I have the same style motor only it is a Canadian 216. I reuse my head bolts and am careful to watch for any signs of the bolts yielding under torque.

The detail that identifies your engine is the shape of the head near the plugs. In the photo you can see a bulge in the casting between 1 and 2 plugs. That is distinct to the 1950 to 52 motor and that head doesn’t fit anything els.

I will start looking for those codes today if I get home early enough I have the vin number on the title (AHEA123590) that’s what is printed on the original title and the current title

The stamped code on the block behind the distributor is the code that’s listed on the title as the vin AHEA123590 the cast code on the head by the valve cover on the driver side is 3895499 here’s a picture of it.
Where is the block casting code and date located? And where is the head casting date ? It’s greasy and I have to spray with brake cleaner and wire brush it to find casting marks

"Where is the block casting code and date located? And where is the head casting date ? "

Are they not in the locations shown in the link that I posted, above?

This should help you decode your engine serial number:
1950 4400
Flint, MI engine plant
Loadmaster 235 Engine with RPO 225

Might the head casting code be 3835499?

It’s certainly possible it’s 383 !! I will clean it up better tomorrow.
I didn’t see the link until you pointed it out will also look for those codes tomorrow. I think I’m going to pull the head this weekend so I will find the head date code when I pull the valve cover

The 3835499 is the casting number on my 1951 216 head too. It now has a head with the US casting number because my original Canadian head was cracked. There is no date stamped on the head as far as I know.

head casting 3835499 is used in multiple part numbers and maybe machined differently - swap with caution
head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3835545 for a 235 engine 50-53 in USA, these are likely babbitt 235s
head casting 3835499 is used in part # xxxxxxx also found on Canadian 216 51 engines (block 3695408)
head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3703569 for a USA 54 261 engine

from my head casting notes...
i don't know the specific differences
-s

Also the actual vin tag between the door hinges on the driver side door is long gone. You can see where it was I will take a picture of it tomorrow but there’s 2 holes one is most likely a screw hole the other has the remains of a pop rivet. So the true actual vin will likely never be determined. Unless someone knows of another place that was also marked

2ManyTrucks,
that is interesting information. The head that I put on my Canadian 216, came off a Canadian car with a 216 motor. Apparently there were times when parts crossed the border to keep production going. The difference in my case is that the intake ports that align with the manifold are the correct size for a 216, not a 235.

Yikes !!! I hope this doesn’t lead to bigger problems under the head !

Don’t spend an unreasonable amount of time or money on it. Plenty of good Stovebolt engines available to swap in there. Later model 235 or better yet a 261 are good ideas.

Probably great advice ! However this is the engine that my truck was born with. I think I’m not going to stop unless there’s absolutely no hope it.

I think I see a big truck governor there. I have never seen one before. It is under the carburetor. Maybe someone could fill me in on that.

You made a whole family of mice homeless!

It may be the original engine, but still be reasonable about your intentions and options.
Perhaps it cost $3-6,000 to professionally rebuild. Or you may find a good replacement for well under $1,000.

I enjoy seeing all original trucks and restorations, I’m glad some people are that passionate and dedicated. There is a lot to learn from their research and efforts.
I’d also much rather see a good everyday driven truck with slight and or sensible upgrades than a half hearted “original restoration” that actually isn’t original.
Go all the way and be original or be practical (and drive it a whole lot), I don’t see much use for half way in between. I really enjoy driving old trucks, and 100% original isn’t necessary for that. Not saying you can’t drive an original as it is or fully restored to like original because they were new once and perfectly driveable then as now; but consider cost and rewards.

Decide what makes you happy and fix or restore your truck to suit. Also step back and reevaluate that plan a time or two along the way.

My guess is you will find mouse pee and poop corrosion all the way to the oil pan down the oil drain holes and push rods. The rockers will all be frozen to the shaft, the bolts, push rods, valve springs, keepers and valves will all be corroded beyond use. The valves will likely be stuck tight in the guides. There very likely will be corrosion on the lifters, they may be stuck and the cam likely damaged.

Personally, I would not try too hard to salvage the head, certainly not the valve gear. IF the valves can be driven from the guides, its possible the bare head might be salvaged.

First thing I would do is pull the engine, I would not even think about taking it apart in the truck. To my mind that would be a total waste of time as it will all have to come apart, right down to the bare block. Every part will need to be inspected for rust damage.

There will be a lot of damage. Pretty sad to see that picture.

Just to echo/footstomp what Grigg said. I tried going the all-original route, too, once ...

The good news is that you have cured any boredom problem you may have had for the forseeable future -- looks like many, many,many hours of fun there....

The best advice I've heard in situations like yours is to stop at this point and check with your State DMV to see what will be required to title and register this truck. Do not listen to anecdotes or stories or advice or any of it from anyone other than the professional staff at your DMV. Their answers will help you decide how much further you want to go with this project. You will no doubt have a bit of a project just to get the truck titled. Best you find out now, rather than after you've sunk a lot of money into.

THEN, once the DMV has helped you make an informed decision ...

Think long and hard about what your ultimate goal is for the truck (to help you decide how to proceed). A couple of thoughts to ponder (from my own painful experience...) It is best to decide now because down the road it will sure stink if you dumped a bunch of money into that 216 and decide that you really wish you could actually drive the truck to events or even just around town.

I don’t know how long mice live. but over 40 years !! I’m guessing many generations of mice lived under that cover.
All hope definitely doesn’t mean a bottomless piggy bank. The engine is just the first thing I wanted to work on because weather it will run or it’s too far gone will determine the direction of the whole project. I haven’t posted pictures of the cab yet!!! It’s like Swiss cheese and would probably be discarded by many. These definitely are not a dime a dozen around my area. So I will work slowly and within my weekly budget to buy panels and parts.
I don’t appreciate the be cautious advice though. That’s why I am here I will need plenty of advice
Here’s some more pictures of the carburetor if you see anything out of the ordinary let me know!

John
No worries there as of yet. It is titled. But it’s titled to the serial number of the block. Even on the original title which I have a copy of. So I do have to find out about how to change that if the block is shot. And I do agree it very likely is but I haven’t gotten into it yet

Yes, (as you indicated) when you title it by the original block, ask your DMV what you should do when you change the block.

See if you can get their instructions in writing, and/or, send them a registered letter with your understanding of their instructions.

Well don’t get too down until you got solid data...
I needed a 235 temporary replacement for my original 216, the best candidate in my junk car pile was an engine that last ran in 1980,
After removing a gallon of cherry pits and mice nests, from inside, I gas washed the rockers and valves and oil pan, sprayed oil on it, hammered all the valves free with wd-40, pounded some bent push rods straight-er...
And that’s the engine I’ve been running for about 3 summers now. It leaks coolant out the side of the casting a bit, this engine also froze a bit with water in it one fall back in the late 70s, I’m gonna use jbweld to seal that up one of these days.
-s

I will say that getting an old motor unstuck and getting it running is one of the most fun filled things I have ever done. My truck sat in a field for over 17 years and I got it going. It didn't have nests inside but it was stuck at first.I did an in place rebuild and put about 40K miles on it. Last year I pulled it, had the block tanked and bored and it is like new.

I did a little more inspection today after work. The rockers are very rusty to the point of rust is scaling off them I think the head has rusted itself into one solid piece I really don’t know if I’ll even be able to remove the head bolts. Going to clean the rest of the mouse hotel tomorrow after work and try removing the bolts before I even start with the manifold bolts.

Ok I think I have decided on the path this truck is going to go on after a week of thinking and discovery !
It’s probably going to be a few weeks before I can get it into the shop as my son and his buddy are working on a 97 mustang. So I’m going to leave the truck out behind the barn until then, and just keep spraying every nut and bolt with penetrating oil every day or so hopefully that will help with some of the worst bolts.
In the meantime lots of research and questions!!
I’m still looking for a repair manual anyone have an opinion on where to find the best one ?
Here’s a picture of the rear anyone know what the bent up bracket is ? Im thinking it was a spare tire holder but not to sure !

The 1947-1951/52 Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual is on-line.
It is also available in reproduction (hardcopy & CD-ROM) from many parts vendors.

You might want to visit the Tech Tips section (on top-line menu above). Lot of good advice and information there (especially in Getting Started).

My bad/wrong guess is that bent bar is an "add-on".

You have a few good dents in the frame members, too?

The bent up bar *is/was* one of two that held the spare tire there.

There is a add on to the frame of about 20” I assume it was for the sign that it carried for 40 years. Yes the rear crossmember is bent down a little that can easily be straightened. The main frame rails appear to be very straight and in very good condition.
John,
I really think it looks like that bent up piece was a spare tire carrier but I see no evidence of a missing second piece.