The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 stomp starter gets stuck

I have a 235 converted to 12volt but w/ 6 volt starter - looks like a relatively new replacement - engine was rebuilt by hot rod shop for P.O.:

It grinds now and then - more times then I would like; but the real problem is the starter drive gets stuck /wedged /or ???? In the engaged position when trying to start it. I frequent but enough that I want to get this solved.

When this happens, nothing happens when stomping

Sometimes I rock truck in gear and it releases , sometimes beating on the starter with a hammer and sometimes I have to push start it?

When push starting it, the starter drive let’s go when dropping the clutch the first time.

Any suggestions? Will be doing a tranny swap from sm420 to a t5 this fall and replacing the ring gear.

I am clueless at what and why this is happening

I have also dropped the starter out and did not see anything that would point me in any direction

I believe there is a difference in the starter drives but I am not well versed on this issue. Hopefully another wise member will be able to expand on the differences and how to check them. I would imagine you have checked the linkage for binding.

Hy Kilted54, have you counted the number of flywheel teeth to verify whether you have a mismatched starter and flywheel?

6 volt flywheels have 139 teeth. 12 volt flywheels have 168 teeth. Be sure you have the correct flywheel/starter combination. A 6V starter has a 5/8" diameter armature shaft, and a 12V starter shaft is 1/2" diameter. 139 tooth flywheel- - - -5/8" starter shaft. 168 tooth flywheel- - - -1/2" starter shaft. Both starter gears have the same number of teeth, but the pitch is different. It sounds like you have a starter/flywheel mismatch.
Jerry

Thanks all, I will be crawling under and yanking it out.

Backstory: I bought the ‘54 off a retiring downsizing co-worker who only put on limited mileage; he bought it from the hot rod shop who obtained it because the ppo lost job and could not pay for engine rebuild. I assumed (and shouldn’t have) that the hot rod shop knew what they were doing but perhaps they wanted to cut losses (or not).

Life sucks when it throws reality and obligations in the way of what you would rather do:

A follow up: 6 volt flywheel and 6 volt starter. I was gifted another much greener and older starter from a known 6 volt engine. Same size shaft.

I am not surprised as the first time a dropped the starter out, it was a bit wonky. Lots of end play on the drive gear when fully extended.

When starter is fully extended and drive gear all the way out:

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/9bsk11c7eUe2BAYd7[/img]

When starter is fully extended the drive gear can move freely from the above position to this one – not good

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/scwpwVDhuMukqLw5A[/img]

The donated starter, when fully extended has no slop and may extend a bit father.
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/Eo2uCGwxyJNQj1wRA[/img]

Should’ve found time earlier – charging the dead battery and hope the donor is good . It spins on the bench

Moral is sometimes I over think things - wish I had a spare starter laying around to compare to

Could be the stomping did in that starter?

Take the nose cone off the sloppy one and inspect the linkage and the starter drive for wear and/or damage.
Jerry

Maybe this is why I've had a spare stomp starter lying around for so many years. Some day.........

I switched over my 6v rig to 12v some years ago. Starter rarely gives me an issue. Once in a while it will freely spin when I lightly stomp on it, but not very often. I should find the spare to see where the gear resides when extended as well as confirming the shaft diameter.

The grease Donor stater spins up noticeably slow (don’t have the tools to measure the draw). Just for fun , I threw it in. – nope, that didn’t work.

Thus, I will be taking jerry’s Advice and pull it apart for an inspection .
I might be doing some transplant work from the donor .

I know there is someplace on line we’re you can order more than the std rebuild kit, I just can’t find the link again

Here's my spare SS with it fully engaged. Note the shaft diameter on this unit is 9/16". So maybe it's a 9v ?

If its an option for you, a rebuilt 6V stomp starter is available from NAPA . I put one on my truck, works fine.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RSE2449651

$59.99 + $19.25 core charge. Can order online and shipped to your local ( if you have one ) NAPA Store.

There looks to be a couple of springs that could be weak.
Grease linkage pivot points.
check pic
illustration

xfiles

Jorb,
Nice illustration.

Dusty53,
For that price, I see no reason to spend the time rebuilding one myself, if I was considering doing it. Nice!

Update: The link that Dusty53 supplied kept bugging me so after pulling my truck receipts folder, I found a NAPA receipt dated 2015 which I bought one of their starters. Then it was for $100. Still a good deal instead of considering ripping into one yourself.

Looks like I found another spring on the left side of the bell housing.
I never knew there was a spring in that location.
I'm not to sure how it is attached to the starting pedal shaft/rod assembly.
But it must help to return the starting pedal shaft/rod back to the non-starting position. Update: Read this POST #1289335 below.
Could be a factor as to why the starting pedal is getting stuck in starting position.
It is not a normal type of Spring. Not sure of its correct type of name.

Check attached photos
Mechanical Starter Control illustration.

Tip, right click on photo and select "open link in new tab"

xfiles

Oh boy! Now I need to look at my truck today to see if that spring is there. I sincerely doubt if my parts there are yellow, blue, red, etc. But if I wash off all the road grime, who knows what one might find.

We fill the battle tank shells with paint and when we fire it, it makes pretty pictures.
It scares the hell out of people.

That "spring" on the driver's side is just a retainer or an anti-rattle device- - - -it has nothing to do with the pedal return.
Jerry

How is the spring attached or held in place?

It appears that it snaps around the shaft and holds it in one direction against t the pivot bracket to prevent it from shaking back and forth. I've got about a dozen engines stockpiled- - - -I'll see if I can find one that still has it in place.
Jerry

Isn't "anti-rattle" against the rules when dealing with stovebolts?

Hotrod Lincoln

You are correct it is a anti-rattle spring. Its not a return spring.
At first it looked like there was a bushing pressed into the bracket that bolts to the bell housing.
It turns out that it is not a bushing, it is the continuation of the spring that wraps around the starting pedal shaft.
There can be some slop between the starting pedal shaft and the bracket,
GM must of decided a anti-rattle spring was more cost effective than a brass bushing.

I was thinking side to side movement, but the spring takes-up the slop between the bracket and the pedal shaft/rod.

Attached photo is from a 1946-1948 Chevy car starting pedal shaft showing the anti-rattle spring.

I updated the photo in my last post with an attachment.

xfiles

As soon as the rains let up, I need to crawl under the turd to see if this spring is in place. Wonder if the OP has this spring in place. Oh and speaking of anti rattle, think the wife would love me more if I had one of these springs installed in my jaws so when I start talking to her........

I don't see where Kilted54 has chimed back in with what he's found so far?

Ohh I am here and I have been reading everything. Work sucks -- I had to interview my replacement as my boss demoted me but I am trying to get the boss tossed. I am winning battles we will see what the war outcome will be. I bought my 54 from my bosses boss so "fern" the 54 and I have an insider. BTW, going out to the garage and messing around is a great escape, but it has been in a friends garage of late - scrapping out several sbc ... it is kinda sad but hardly anybody wants them and if they do they want it for free. The LS engines killed them.

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME. I will be buying one but I am also going to take a crack at rebuilding (because I can). Crawling around under truck gave me at least one more project as I think I said a few times "what dumb arse did that" Never the less, wow great information and thank you all

Kilted54,
Hope you get your way at work. As most of us have recognized, sound best to me if you just get a new starter from Napa or similar FLAPS.

Kilted54 ,
Yeah, hope you get a win-win at work. So hang in there and let us know "the rest of the story" when you solve this puzzle!

Order a starter from NAPA, so I am looking forward to having a truck that I do not have to push start!

And, if you keep your truck well-tuned, you might never feel the need to stomp on your foot-starter pedal.

(jorb, as usual, very nice posts and illustrations)

Thanks, Yours are pretty fine also !

I also agree with the well-tuned engine part.

New starter finally in; diabetes makes it a [censored] working in cold but was a nice day and in it went

SO NICE TO NOT HEAR GRINDING!

I do have the problem discussed above were the switch is not pushing button in far enough to trigger current to go to starter - used water bottle cap.

Time to do some digging to find better solution.

Again, thanks all for help and wealth of info

Before I replaced the starter, I did not have a problem with the lever traveling far enough to turn on the power ...

Replacing the starter with a new NAPA, i no longer have enough travel to trigger power!

Checked the linkage, which doesn’t have noticeable slop . Switched out switch from bad starter, still no go.

Imy permanent solution is ...

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/gQnBdgHXZRjMn1V66[/img]





I had a spare linkage. Cut it in half, cut fine treads on both ends and used connector but. Unfortunately it is not a turnbuckle so I could adjust when installed. Hope it will hold up.

Maybe the switch bolt holes on the new starter are to far forward. Just a guess.

Illustration

Jorb,

I agree with you and felt that was one of possible causes from the get good: sloppy linkage (no), bad switch( nope - tried the switch from 2 other starters), and for me by process of elimination, the switch mounting position.

I’m paranoid that my rub-Goldberg solution will vibrate apart, so lock-tight and some jam nuts..

I had to start leaving little changes that allows the next owner to say “what the ¥€<#}>€^%#>€ was that guy thinking!

Again, thanks all.

Lots of projects to go!

might want to check the spring, if its anything less than strong it can get stuck.. also make sure its properly lubricated, take it off and lubricate anything that spins (just not the motor) and dont take the motor unit out, because the brushes in it are rather hard to set open. thats what i did and it works mighty fine, also if the sprocket is broken or damaged look into a new assembly, which can be found Here. the internal spring can also be worn out, which can cause issues.

Thank you on advice on return spring. Great advice!

I never thought about how that plays into the mechanical nature of the foot starter. I believe it’s up to the task.

Here it is all together.

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/tjdxQ3hjA9Hn8H5r9[/img]