Hello everyone. I having difficulty finding a starter relay assembly for my 1955GMC 100 2nd series with a hydramatic transmission. Basically what happens is when I go to start it up, I hear a click coming from the relay, and no engine crank. This relay is screwed to the firewall and is located right underneath the battery tray. I have been able to locate the part number as being a Delco-Remy Starter relay assembly part number 1116855. Anyone have any ideas or sites where I could find a replacement? Didn't think it would be this difficult.
Does the starter turn if you connect jumper cables to the downstream side of the relay? If not, the relay isn't the problem. Most Hydramatic equipped engines have a starter with a solenoid bolted onto the top of the starter. Does your truck have one that's a completely separate unit?
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks for the reply. The solenoid is bolted on top of the starter. I initially thought the solenoid may have been the problem since I would hear a "clicking" sound everytime I turn the ignition switch to the crank position. I have a backup starter that is in good working shape. I installed that to see if it would continue making the "clicking' noise, and it did. So I had my dad turn the ignition switch to the crank position while i was listening for the "clicking" sound. It wasn't coming from the solenoid at all, but from the relay. I put my fingers on it and I could feel the "clicking" every time the ignition switch was turned to the crank position. Just to verify a bit more, I put a test light on the solenoid connection where battery power should be when turning the ignition switch to the crank position. The test light never lit up when in the crank position, just continued to hear the "clicking" sound.
OK- - - -have you used a jumper wire from the battery cable terminal at the starter to the small terminal on the engine side of the solenoid cover? That's the circuit the relay is trying to complete. If the starter functions that way, any magnetic start switch will fix the problem- - - -even one for a (GASP!) Ford or MOPAR. You don't need the original equipment relay. I assume the truck is still 6 volt? If so, check somewhere like Rock Auto or NAPA for a 6 volt starter relay for an early 1950's Dodge, Chrysler, or Plymouth. 6 volt Ford starter relays use a circuit that is grounded to engage it, while MOPAR relays use applied voltage to energize them. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I have no idea if your system is correct but it seems strange to have two relays for the starter, the solenoid is already serving the purpose of a relay, of course with having no experience myself on your vintage GMC I'm just offering some thoughts. As HRL suggested, any relay suited for the voltage and current will work.
Last edited by 78buckshot; 12/17/201812:37 PM.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
The pull-in winding on the starter-mounted solenoid draws enough surge current to damage the "start" contacts in the ignition switch. Putting a magnetic switch out on the firewall as a device to prevent ignition switch burnout is a good idea. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I could not find a 1955 GMC wiring diagram showing the separate control relay. I was intrigued because the 54 Chevy truvck with Hydramatic trans. does not have a separate control relay. (check 2nd pic) The closes I could come to a wiring diagram with the separate control relay was the 1953-54--55 Corvette. (1st pic)
I think they only used a separate control relay in vehicles with a automatic trans. and with a spring to start type switch. The neutral safety switch, ignition switch, and the solenoid on the starter are wired to the separate control relay.
I think the reason why they didn't use the separate control relay in the 54 Chevy truck with a Hydra-Matic trans is because they used a high current push to start button type switch..
The 1955 GMC 2nd series truck and the 1954-55 Corvette used a keyed ignition switch, which is not designed to handle high current.
Tip: To view larger image, right click on image and select "open link in new tab" and click again.
I have not tried using a jumper wire from the battery cable terminal at the starter to the small terminal of the solenoid cover. I will give that a try. The truck was converted to 12V by my dad years ago.
George,
Thank you for the link and location to where to find a relay. I will test as well as look at this site.
I also believe that the relay assembly was to prevent high current damage. I've looked at the wiring diagram as well and could not find the relay assembly, which has me confused. I initially believed it was added by the previous owner(s) before my dad bought the truck. But it's been there since coming out the factory.
That's just a very simple single contact relay. Since you're running 12 volts, just go to the corner parts store and buy a Ford-style 12 volt starter switch and wire it up to energize the starter-mounted solenoid. Use the "start" signal from the ignition switch to trigger the Ford switch. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
There is no starter relay on 55-59 GMC 100 series. The solenoid performs like a relay except it has an added mechanical linkage attached to the electromagnetic component. The switching activation of the relay is low draw, then it's big contacts inside handle the big draw. Two different windings.
The only starter relay for 55-59 GMC hydra-matic is for a MW500 tractor truck. Don't know why it is there to begin with. If a stock 1/2T, your automatic transmission has nothing to do with it.
If someone has replaced the motor from an earlier year, they may have brought over all the wiring with it. It may have an older 6V starter and etc. We don't know. If it has a 55.2 starter and electrical system, it should not have a starter relay. If so, wire your ignition per the 55-59 GMC schematic in the maintenance manual. It could have something to do with 1955, this was a transition year; 55.1 to 55.2. So could be a left over hybrid system. The 1954 schematic posted previously seems to associate the starter relay with larger trucks? and Buicks?
I have done the Ford relay/starter jumper trick several times. Nice setup. Eliminates all wires down to starter except the big cable. Prevents hot wires down there which cause resistance and loss of current carrying capacity. It's not done because the system "needs" it.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
I will look into buying a Ford style solenoid. I will give this a try this weekend and will post back if I have success or if I have any further questions. Never thought of using the Ford style solenoid on GM starter system.
Lincolns & some other high dollar Fords used Delco starters with the regular Ford starter relay back in the 60's 70's. I put one on every one I build up.
George
Last edited by Wrenchbender Ret.; 12/20/20181:24 AM.
They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing. 1972 Chevy c10 Cheyenne Super In the Gallery Forum
Just to be clear, my specific reason for doing a popular "Remote Ford Relay Trick" is not to replace your relay or to say you need a relay. It is a procedure to help a heat soak situation I described. My specific install includes making a jumper at the starter terminals. It has nothing to do with your "problem". Several of us have addressed your problem by stating that you do not need a relay for a 1955.2 GMC stock starter. I believe the relay should be omitted, truck wired per 55.2 diagram and then see what happens. If no luck, proceed to test components and wiring. I have the 55.2 GMC wiring diagram if you need help.
Sorry for the confusion, but Jerry's mentioning of the Ford relay made me mention the little trick I've done. I make the jumper from a piece of flattened copper tubing. The reason for the Ford relay is it is cheap, available, allows for easy attachment of remote starter switch, no live cable to starter, no small wires to starter, convenient attachment point for battery hot, eliminates the heat soak issues and burnt wires on V8's. It's mounting flanges need to touch bare metal. All this does is make your starter system like 60's, 70's and 80's Ford starters. Call it the "one wire" starter.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
The 1954 schematic posted previously seems to associate the starter relay with larger trucks? and Buicks?
The reason I posted the 53-55 Corvette schematic was to show that they used a separate starter relay. The starter relay seems to be only used with corvettes equipped with powerglide trans. that uses a neutral safety switch that is in the starter relay circuit. I could not find a GMC 55 2nd series schematic.
If you look at the regular 1954 Chevy truck schematic HERE it does not show the Hydramatic trans. wiring. The 1954 Chevy truck schematic I posted, shows the Hydramatic trans. wiring, That schematic came from a Motors Service Manual
Originally Posted by bartamos
I have the 55.2 GMC wiring diagram if you need help.
So maybe the 55.2 GMC wiring diagram you have does not show the Hydramatic trans. wiring. also. Unless you know someone that has a stock 55.2 GMC with a Hydramatic trans.
I know that the 1954 Chevy truck does not have the relay but is has the neutral safety switch. You are right it does look like the Buicks used the relay, but when I searched the part # 1116855 a couple hits where showing GMC in the listing.
I know that there is high current in the 1954 Chevy truck circuit because they used at least 8 GA wire to the neutral safety switch and to the push to start button and to the solenoid.
It would be a very simple matter to just check the resistance of the pull-in winding of the solenoid and calculate the initial current draw as the starter gear is being engaged, but once that fact was established it would be impossible to pontificate about how "There's no high current involved!" That's never going to happen. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The 55.2 GMC schematic/wiring diagram in the maintenance manual shows a neutral safety switch and no relay. The Starting section mentions no relay and the whole manual is available on oldcarmanualproject.
I don't think anyone said "There's no high current involved".
The ignition switch, used on 55.2-59, does not see high current. It activates the solenoid electromagnet low current. The high current is then isolated to the battery cable/solenoid/starter motor connections as the plunger slams. (Big terminals and copper strip/disc). The solenoid does not need a relay to protect it. The ignition switch does not need anything to protect it. It's all good and has worked for 63.97 years.
Please be sure you have a ballast resistor installed and throw the relay in the lake....I mean recycle.
Lets get this show on the road. There is no big deal here. Truck had an unnecessary relay in the system that was turning on another relay. It was adding resistance and now does not work and is stopping the whole shebang.
All of our advise and suggestions are off if the truck is a hybrid, mixed up wiring, hob knob, flux relay, previous owner franken-ignition. If lightning aura appears on the truck's body surface upon starting, be prepared to go back to the future.......in pieces.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
After all this talk about starter wiring, for the heck of it, I checked my starter wiring. I noticed that the two wires on the solenoid were flipped.
As per assembly manual; The purple wire is suppose to be connected to the solenoid battery cable terminal. The purple wire is then routed over to the neutral safety switch, then to one side of the starter push switch.
The black wire is suppose to be connected to the solenoid's smaller lug S terminal. The black wire is then routed over to one of the ammeter terminals, then to the other side side of the starter push switch.
Does it really matter what wires in the starter push switch circuit, are connected to the solenoid terminals?
Your "A" diagram cannot work- - - -the starter would run all the time. "B" is the only possible way it can function. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Be careful when wiring using colors as your guide. Always use function. Check to see where a wire goes. Check that it matches the diagram for the year. Buzz it out. Purple shmurple. "B" is more correct but maybe not totally. These crazy hard to read wiring diagrams for AD show solenoid start and foot start wiring. Why two battery wires from ammeter to battery? There is no purple, AKA violet, in the 1954 wiring diagram regarding starting wiring? I have never seen anyone use a drawing sheet for wiring, but maybe it's OK. You are supposed to have foot start? Pink wire missing in second pic.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
Your "A" diagram cannot work- - - -the starter would run all the time. "B" is the only possible way it can function. Jerry
If "A" is wrong then the assembly manual instructions are wrong. It looks to me that the instructions are showing the battery cable and the neutral safety switch wire are connected to the same solenoid terminal.
Originally Posted by bartamos
Be careful when wiring using colors as your guide. Always use function. Check to see where a wire goes. Check that it matches the diagram for the year. Buzz it out. Purple shmurple. "B" is more correct but maybe not totally. These crazy hard to read wiring diagrams for AD show solenoid start and foot start wiring. Why two battery wires from ammeter to battery? There is no purple, AKA violet, in the 1954 wiring diagram regarding starting wiring? I have never seen anyone use a drawing sheet for wiring, but maybe it's OK. You are supposed to have foot start? Pink wire missing in second pic.
"B" does seem more correct. Yes I agree, it is hard to read the diagram when they show solenoid start and foot start wiring together. I added the 2nd battery wire from ammeter to battery, because everything (ignition, light switch, regulator) is fed battery power from the ammeter. Maybe the 2nd wire is not needed. There is purple colored wires in the assembly manual automatic trans. instructions photo I uploaded. I'm not supposed to have foot start, 1954 trucks equipped with automatic trans., came with solenoid starter. I didn't include the pink wire because it is not in the starting circuit. The pink wire energizes the coil when the key switch is in the ON position. But the pink wire is in the automatic trans ammeter to starter switch harness assembly. Check assembly manual instructions photo I uploaded
Sorry Jorb, you are correct, solenoid on automatic. Wiring a NSS to a foot start would be funky.
I have not owned any AD's.........back to the 55.2. I checked the 55-59 GMC wiring diagram and 1960 GMC wiring diagram. It's pretty simple. Both diagrams are the same. When you don't have automatic, you have one wire from ignition switch start terminal to the S terminal on starter solenoid. When you have automatic, that one wire goes from ignition start thru the neutral safety switch, then to the starter solenoid S terminal.
Back to Jorb: Your automatic transmission instruction sheet photo diagram does not match "A" or "B". BUT now that I have been able to zoom into that diagram......... "A" would be correct as you said. except for that extra wire from battery to ammeter (as Jerry says , it will cause solenoid to be energized all the time). When I say A is correct, I mean it matches the diagram and colors....except for the extra wire. To answer your question. It does not matter which way the push button terminals are wired as long as the wires go to the proper place.
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. - William Penn
It would be better to have a start when clutch pedal is depressed switch.
I found the mistake, it was the assembly manual Automatic transmission instructions. The arrows or instructions are flipped. Pointing at the wrong solenoid location. ( 4th attached pic )
