The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Fresh Delstar®, time into service???

Just finished painting a couple of rims I sandblasted yesterday. I primed them this morning with PPG DPLV epoxy primer and shot them this afternoon with Delstar®/Delthane®. They got one good heavy coat of primer and one of the enamel. I’ve never used Delstar ® before and would like to know how much time I should give them before I can mount up the tires. If this were plane old enamel they’d need a week or two to harden. Bulletin P-137 says overnight @70° but is it really gonna be hard enough to mount a tire on in that short of a period????
I don’t want the tires to imbed into the paint ya know.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I would still give it a couple of weeks as you mentioned just to be safe unless you really need them sooner. I for sure wouldn't mount tires for a few days. Even when I use urethanes, I give something like a wheel quite a bit of time to cure before mounting a tire. Even though it has hardener, it is going to be soft for a few days.

Denny,
Will a wheel fit in your oven? I seem to recall you've baked some small parts in your oven before with good results. The wife might not like it though!

Yeah, but my "big old wife" is at work, tee hee!!!
I think the 16.5" wheels are a bit too large to fit in there. The bulletin does spec. it into service with a 40minute bake out at 140° + 8hours. But I'm sure they are referring to a body panel not harsh service like a wheel.
That's kind of what I been a thinkin' Guthrie, I guess I could put up with those new bias plies for another week or two.
I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with it.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

As you most likely already know, the Delstar/Delthane combination is not at all like a plain old enamel. It is a two part catalyzed system and, as such, it's curing is primarily temperature dependent (the time to cure, a chemical reaction, is a function of the temperature).

My experience with catalyzed enamels is that they cure within a day or two (at 70 degrees or higher). In fact, some catalyzed enamels are so hard after a few days that it becomes difficult to color sand/polish them.

If the Delstar/Delthane product sheets say it is hard in one day (at 70 degrees), give it a couple days and you should be safe.

For stuff like that I would paint up a sacrifice panel out of a piece of scrap metal so you can test paint hardness. Just paint it at the same time as the other stuff, leave it in the same conditions to dry, and see how soft the paint is on it before you try to use the other items.

The last five or six years before I retired from the accelerator, a large part of my job was working with urethanes, epoxies and carbon fiber pre-preg that we used for building support structures for our detectors. Many of the larger structures we would heat cure in an auto clave or walk-in oven. We also had several smaller ovens that we used. After the parts had cured overnight they were at approximately 95% of their strength according to the engineers and with in a week they were at 100%.
I suppose now that I think about it that an overnight cure (24hrs)with the urathane paint would give me the same results as I got with the other resins that I worked with. And like ya say, if I gave it a couple of days I'd probably be as close to fully cured as I'm gonna get. Temps have been averaging over 70°F around here and are supposed to hold till this weekend.
Well thanks for the comments.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Well overnight (20 hrs) has passed and the paint feels to the touch completely set. Now I taint done a punch test or hardness test but it feels hard. gonna wait another day or so anyway.
But, the question that I have noooow is this. I mixed up a little to much paint and had about a cup (8oz)left over. I sealed the remainder up in a Ragu jar and fully expected it to be a solid mass this morning since the spec sheet says that it has a pot life of 8hrs. @ 70°.
It’s still fluid and doesn’t even look to thick some 20 hours later. Now if I open the jar and try to spray this is it going to solidify in my gun before I can get it shot and cleaned up???? I need an answer ASAP but I would like to know if it ever comes up again.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, I too have sealed up mixed catalyzed paint in Ragu jars but I stick it in the fridge with the Point Special and I have sucessfully sprayed it up to 2 days later. The paint not the beer. Ragu jars have excellent seals in their covers. I use 'em all the time. Weeds

Well I was really surprised I sprayed the inside of the wheels with 23hour old mix and it came out fine, acted just like freshly mixed paint. I mounted up the tires here at home Friday afternoon, and all went well not even a scratch on the two-day-old paint. I used good old duct tape as my buffer on the tools and hold down.

Ok, so now that I’ve sprayed some Delstar® DAR I can see how the PPG single stage catalyzed enamel works. I’ve also used some PPG, CPC (Commercial Performance Coatings) enamel which does not use a catalyst and had good results with it similar to the DAR. The CPC was what was sent as a “perfect match” for the original Mariner Blue by one of the vendors. The DAR does seem to have more of a wet look to it than the CPC.

I have also used some Deltron® DBU/DIU two stage Base coat, Clear coat, for the interior but what’s the difference between that and the Deltron® DBC/DBI, they look like they are for the same type of application and are the same type of systems, both are BC/CC. Their description of the two systems is almost identical, word for word. Where would one be used over the other???

Has anyone been to any of the PPG seminars or classes and did they explain exactly how to determine which system to choose and why??? The bulletins are very sketchy and really leave you hanging, I wonder if they do that on purpose, they couldn’t be oblivious to the fact that their bulletins are extremely vague and non-informative. I would think that someone at PPG would understand the basic fact that if they explained the application of the product better that they would sell more of it.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The DBC and DBU are the most closely matched products, both are basecoats made for exterior usage. DBC is the newer of the two and within time(its happening now) DBU will be phased out.
DBU will hardnen once you add in the DTR reducer, DBC will not hardnen.

The DBI and the other one you listed are basically made for interior usage. Not something you want for the outside. They were made for painting interior plastic parts, but the vinyl dye system (SX) works far superior.
In alreality there is no point for the DBI.

If you were going with PPG basecoat DBC is the route to go.

Well I guess we can add this to the, lets get more confused box.
According to the literature and the PPG dealer DBU/DIU is one in the same material. The way it was explained to me was that, It's refered to as DIU when you use it on the interior with out the clear coat where you do not want the high gloss and DBU when you use it with the clear coat. The DBC/DBI system uses the same naming convention.

I do notice now that you mention it, that the DBC/DBI has a Note: There is no pot life for this mixture. So are they saying that it has an indefinite pot life even when it is mixed with a reducer? And it must be the air or moisture that kicks it off?
I know the DBU/DIU needs a reactive reducer to kick it off so I do see some difference now.
Is there a bulletin or service note that says that it is being phased out???
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Had my wheels powder coated. ...cost, $40.00 each.

DBC and DBU are base coats for exterior use. DBI and DIU are interior paints nothing more nothing less.

Your typical base coat doesn't cure it air dries like a lacquer thinner. You can mix DBC/DBI with DT reducer put it in a sealed container and have it last for years.

DBU and DIU will have a 2hr potlife once mixed with the DTR reducer.

DBI and DIU or whatever are pointless IMO. They are mixed from the same bank of products as the DBC/DBU banks. Even when used on the interior they degrade because of the lack of UV protection. If you want a flat look go with DCU2065 flat clear or flatten a clear.

There is no bulletin about the DBU phase out, all you need to know and see as that pretty much all new colors(since about 2001) are not available in the DBU mix. Plus I heard it at my last PPG painting class.