The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Distributor woes

In the process of troubleshooting my rough running 235 I recently replaced the distributor with another I had lying around from the old 216. The motor perked right up with the 216's dizzy, but Hotrod Jerry has warned me that it might not be wise to run the wrong distributor for too long. But he also says that folks that know more about distributors might be able to tell me if the two dizzys are compatible, given the casting numbers. Well, the casting number off the 235's D - the faulty one - is 1924236. That is pressed into the underside of the D. I don't really want to pull the 216s D since it is running so nicely these days, but it is original to the truck from 1953.
There are model - serial numbers on both that I can get to. The faulty 235 D has model - serial 1112403 - 1M15. The functioning 216 D has model - serial 112362 - 3617.
Can anyone make heads or tails of this?
I probably am looking for a new/used distributor from a 235.
Karl

...link...



To be safe you should use the drive gear off your 235 distributor


If you had a 216 and were using a later distributor you would have no problem
But your going the other way

The 362 distributor was original equipment on 51-52 Chevy with manual transmission. 363 was same year but with automatic. The 2403 entered service in 55 and was production line up to 62/63. It was also service replacement for 46 and up.

What year is the motor you are working on?

Anything jump out at you as being off on the 2403? Have you taken it apart and looked under the breaker plate?

I've never gotten the numbers on the motor to line up exactly, but the 235 has hydralic lifters and comes from the late 50's. I have not opened the 2403, but the nodes that run the points are noticeably worn and less sharp than on the 2362.
The old 216 is a complete motor and I prefer not to lift parts from it. But if the 2403 was a service replacement for older motors than the older 2362 should work in the 235, right?
Karl

The drive gear on your 216 distributor is most likely steel

The drive gear on the 235 distributor is most likely cast iron.

It is not advisable to run a steel drive gear on a cast iron cam.

To be safe
Just take the drive gear off your 235 distributor and put it on your 216 distributor and your good to go

The lobes on the earlier distributor are different then the lobes on the later distributor, as is the dwell setting. So without actually seeing the condition of the lobes on the later distributor I would not want to venture a guess as to the condition, but generally, unless the lobes are pitted or rusty, or have been obviously damaged, they are likely fine. Usually, when I am rebuilding a 235 distributor, its the crud under the breaker plate, or rusted frozen advance weights, broken advance pins, or broken advance springs that are the culprit. I have an nos 2403 distributor that when I put it on my sun machine, the hardened grease prevented it from operating correctly. Had to give it a through cleaning before it worked properly, and that is NOS, so imagine what a 60 plus year old unit is like.

As the others have said, using the early steel distributor on the later motor's cast cam is probably not the right call here. So I agree, either swap gears or get the 2403 clean and squared away, or get a replacement 2403.

Well that means I'll be tearing into the 2403. I do not want to canabalize parts from the 216. Darn but it sure is nice to have a smooth running truck, even if it depends on mismatched parts to keep running!
Karl

It will work out! Those 2403 units are plentiful so no downside to taking yours apart. Should not take you long to diagnose the problem or if nothing sticks out to get it back into shape. Move the shaft and see if there is excess side to side clearance, or up down clearance. Look at the lobes, should be shinny and smooth, not rusty and rough or pitted. take the mechanical advance mechanism under the breaker plate apart and clean and polish up the advance weights, inspect the pins and make sure the springs are there. You cant actually get to the underside of the mechanism without taking the gear off but there are two holes under the distributor body for drainage so you can dunk the whole thing in solvent to clean it up (after you have taken it apart.) Scrub out the port where the grease stem is but be careful, there is a little bakelite disc and a spring in there (remove the stem) The spring puts pressure on the bakelite disc, which puts pressure on the distributor shaft which keeps the shaft from wobbling and moving. There are no replaceable bushings in these units. Then regrease, lube and put it all back together with fresh points and condenser and see what that does. These distributors were made of really good materials and don't take a lot to get them back up to speed.

Sometimes youll find the disc missing from the spring in front of the grease cup

Here is a link
...link...


One of mine was missing so I replaced it using that tip
...pic...

...pic...

Replacing the gear is not difficult

...pic...

You can replace the pin with a roll pin

...pic...

Just cut the excess with dremel tool and file flush
Some do not like the roll pin but I have not had an issue yet

OK, part number gurus- - - -what is the original application for an 1112388 distributor? Karl, I've got one you're welcome to have if we can figure out how to get it to you.
Jerry

53 auto trans, 54 manual.

1112389 is 53 manual

1112396 is 54 auto

So, Jerry, your post made me start to wonder if the 2403 is not original to the engine. An earlier posting of the casting number on the block led me to believe that I have a 1953 235. It has the short side cover and hydralic lifters. It also has aluminum pistons and four coats of paint, all different colors. So the motor has had an eventful life and I suspect has been the victim of a number of weekend mechanics. So there is a good chance the 2403 distributer is not original. I wonder if the cam is original? The bottom end is strong and the compression is good, but I suspect the engine has had a long hard life and carries a number of mismatched parts.

Anyway, while double-checking the block casting number I was looking at the defective distributor again. I noticed that the drive gear has a bit of radial play - about 2 mm, you guys know millimeters - the drive gear is not tight on the shaft. I would expect that could play havoc with the timing. So I will be knocking out the pin to see what is happening. Jerry, I believe I would like a reserve distributer. I'll send a pm.
Karl

What is the s/n pressed into the pad next to the distributor?

....example...

There are some guys on the forum here that can run your s/n and let you know what you have

There should be NO relative movement between the gear and the shaft. If one or both of the holes is worn egg-shaped just drill them out to a slightly larger size and install either a spring pin or a solid one, peened on the ends to eliminate any slack. While the gear is off, go ahead and do a detailed cleanup of the centrifugal advance, lightly lubricate it with some high temperature grease like Lubri-Plate, and reassemble.

Important! Grind the ends of the pin flush with the gear before trying to remove it. The peened section of the pin can crack the gear as it passes through the flange unless the expanded part is ground away.
Jerry

Here are a few numbers for Dads50: That s/n is HAA 133972. When I try to decipher this code I get a 216 from 1950. Someone else here got a different result, a 1953 235. There are a lot of sources for deciphering these codes and they do not seem to all come to the same result. Whatever they say, I have been told the engine is a 235, it has hydraulic lifters and a short side cover, nothing seems to jive with what the code says, which leads me to believe that the motor has been aggresively rebuilt.
Karl

Check your block casting number


http://www.inliners.org/becks/BCN2.html

So, according to that site, the motor is from 1950, and so must be a 216, right? The actual number 133972 doesn't seem to correspond to anything.

Ok now I see, the casting number is in front of the distributor, not on the deck behind it.

Sounds like a 1950 car 216

But your descriptin of short side cover is confusing to me?

The 133972 is just the production sequence

HAA - 1950 216 installed with reguler (3-speed) transmission
H = = 1950 model year
A = passenger car
A = regular engine from Flint, MI engine plant = 216

133972 = 133972-1000 = 132972th engine out of that plant in that year
http://www.1954advance-design.com/chev-specs/1950-c-ser.pdf

Find and post the various casting codes shown on this page.

As posted above, the short side cover on a 1950 USA 216 engine is odd. On 1950 USA 216s there was a "tall" side cover (a short cover head was used on Canadian 1950 216s )

One possibility is that the Engine Serial Number is not original (the casting codes will tell us more).

It could be like mine, my serial number was a 48 and casting code 2951. After closer inspection, someone restanped the serial number!

Chris

So now I found a casting code - 3701946. That translates as a 1953 235 engine. How that goes together with the HAA prefix is a mystery to me, unless the H is an L. But It sure looks like an H, and that area is clean and easy to read. Maybe the casting number agrees better with the other aspects of the engine.

1950 and later 235 engines had the short side cover.

It is an H, so the prefix is HAA. Can the block have been cast in 1950 as a 216 but bored out and finished in 1953 as a 235?

There are other differences besides bore size between a 1950 216 and a full pressure 235. One is the "oil distributor" on the driver's side, something a full pressure engine doesn't have. 235's also have a taller block dimension from the crankshaft centerline to the top of the block. A 218 cannot be turned into a 235. Boring a 216 for 235 pistons makes it a 224.
Jerry