The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop How's it drive?

I know frame swaps are popular... or mustang 2 suspensions...

But for those of you who stayed with a stock front suspension, who added P/S and front discs and what do you think? Worth it?

Disc just seems safer... but I've driven cars that had manual steering, drums all around... but I have not had a chance to drive a fully stock AD or one with upgrades.

So, what do you guys think? Handles good? Upgrades a must? In town or highway?

If you're in the Dallas area come by and drive this 57. All stock suspension and steering but does have a brake booster and polypropylene between the spring leaves. Skinny (near stock size) 215/85/R15 radials, big factory steering wheel, and front end rebuilt to factory specs let you turn lock to lock with two fingers while setting still on bare concrete. The speed limit in front of the shop is 75 but 85 won't get you in trouble and at that speed you don't even need your hands on the wheel except to change lanes. Drum brakes are actually BETTER than discs for NORMAL use---more contact area between drum and shoe than between disc and pad. Disc are self cleaning and rotor does not expand away from pads like drum does from shoes so if you are slalom racing or pulling a trailer in the mountains go with the disc. Last thought; 300mph dragsters have straight axles.

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coilover said "front end rebuilt to factory specs let you turn lock to lock with two fingers while setting still on bare concrete"

Well, the front end of my 51, 3600 is in OK used (currently 52k miles) condition. Tie rod ends are stock/original but not sloppy, some wear on king pins but drives fine down the road. However it takes both arms and a firm grip to turn around on most any surface. I haven't adjusted the steering box, just make sure it has lube. I'm wondering if the Very nice 57 in the images has a different ratio steering sector, making for easier turning?

The past year I've been using the old truck as just another vehicle to drive when needed. It's been working for quite a while around the place and running to town (20 miles) on a regular basis with no issues. Your comment makes me believe I diffidently need to pay some attention to the front end.

From searching... it seems people either hate stock or love it. It's why I thought I'd start this thread, get some fresh opinions out. I adjusted my buddy's mustang with all drums and got it all pretty tight with new shoes. It stops great.

But... he's got a stock motor. I have a plain basic 350. No thrills, no hotrod. And I drive kinda slow, or did in the truck it came out of.

I have a th350 in it, so... I wanted a shift column. I grabbed a 1970 c10 column for the tilt and shifter and it looks plain enough to go with the basic 50s interior. I've got a c10 power steering pump and gearbox, and I've seen kits that utilize them. What are your opinions on them? Specifically the CPP, looks like 100 bucks, and then 40 for the Pittman arm.

Currently I am in the unique situation to do a comparison between two trucks of the same year with differing straight axle setups.
1) 49 Chevy 3100, nearly completely stock with it's factory axle, leafs, lever shocks, 215 85R 16 radials on stock rims and Huck brakes all around. It's still powered by it's original 216, 3 speed and closed (torque tube) drivetrain. The entire brake system as been rebuilt to OEM spec's.

2) 49 GMC 100, modified, factory straight axle-lowered, 5 leafs (3 removed), custom short tube shocks, power brakes with discs up front and bendix drums in back, 225 60R14's on rear and short 215 60R 14's up front, late model open drive train powered by a 350, TH350 and a Nova rearendwith lower leafs and coil over shocks.

The Chevy handles and drives much smoother, even with more leafs in the front. The skinny tires makes it steer much easier and it feels more stable at speeds over 50. Braking is OK but it experiences some fadeing on heavy use. I can lock the brakes up in a panic and haven't had a situation where the brakes didn't stop me in the time and space alotted.

The GMC steers OK but rides like a buckboard wagon. I believe taller tires up front will improve it's ride immensely so thats in the plans. Braking is almost too good. It will definitely stop shorter and quicker than the OEM Hucks and one has to exercise due diligence when operating them. That said they work pretty much like any modern vehicles braking system works. When driving it I constantly find myself running faster than I should and IMHO when one increases the AD's HP to 150+ HP I highly recommend upgraded braking. Dual master cyl for safety and disc's up front. Powered isn't necessary but wouldn't hurt LOL.

Having my druthers, If I keep the GMC I can see adding power steering and either a MII front suspension or doing an entire frame swap. Perhaps even AC.
The Chevy, since it is nearly completely stock is going to stay pretty close to it's OEM spec's with the exceptions of its going to get an engine upgrade to a 54 235, maybe upgraded to 50's style tube shocks and perhaps the addition of a sliding back window. All worn out parts are slowly getting replaced with OEM spec'd replacements.
Both provide a very different level of driving pleasure LOL.
Dave

Nice comparison. I wish I could drive a couple like that.

Anyone here got experience using manual steering with a different column? I'm wanting to use the 1950 steering wheel on my 1970 column. It's tilt... does tilt make a difference for manual?

my 58 2-ton is all stock up front, stock brakes, (no idea how old the brake shoes are on it, I believe at least 1985 vintage, probably older, that was the last time the truck was in use before I got it). I had replaced the springs and axles on my 59 Suburban Suburban and had power disc up front and also installed power steering. As Dave said, they both drive differently, not sure one is "better" than the other. I enjoy driving them both, the 58 2-ton actually steers pretty darn easy, and doesn't ride too bad (a bit softer ride with a few thousand pounds on the back though!)

I think it is really what you are used to, and what you want out of the truck! Parallel parking in the city where things are tight is much easier with power steering!

Tires are a big reason they are hard to turn at slow speed with a manual steering. I run the 650 by 16 6 ply highway treads and it is really easy to turn at slow speeds, course the tread is only 5" wide. Some wider radials would be a totally different story IMHO

Tire width makes since. I don't think it would hurt to use factory gearbox and change later if I need too... unless there's some cost to reusing one that I'm missing..

I may have messed up.. I cut the shaft pretty close to the box.. this a problem?

I think I'm leaning towards P/S.. I've already got the gearbox and pump from a c10... I've gotten good feedback and the cost isn't bad.

My axle isn't installed, front is on jack stands. But I noticed.. my front spring packs have like 8 leafs and my rear has 6. Is this right?

The other day I drove my 53 out to the hood canal and back. My 53 has all stock brakes and suspension, rebuilt with less than 100 miles. I enjoyed the ride, the suspension and steering was surprisingly tight. At first I was wishing for more brake especially during those times where you get a light change at 45 miles an hour and have to stop. It takes a lot of pedal effort to stop this machine, but the brakes are there, you just have to push down to get them. I think I forgot about manual brakes, we get so used to power this and that we think our old stuff is under braked, but it isn't. There is enough brakes there to stop this machine at the speeds that I am going to drive it.

If your truck is a 47-55.1 AD then yes thats correct.

If I am not mistaken, the gear box in your truck has a one piece steering column. Meaning, the steering shaft is part of the gear box. You would need to cut the shaft off and make it into a double "D" shaft and use some sort of coupler joint to mate up to the modern column.

My truck has manual disk brakes, it will stop just fine with enough pedal input. If you are getting older and have weak joints or sore knees, then power brakes would be the way to go. I went to disk brakes just so the front and rear bolt patterns would match and I could run 5 lug wheels. I suspect drums up front would have done just as good of a job with less pedal pressure.

I also have manual steering, I used a gear box from a 1941 truck ( mine is a 1937 ). The '41 has slower gear ratio and better internal design. I could tell right off the ratio was different, much easier to steer. It still takes some effort when moving very slow, but I so no reason to add power assist. Tire air pressure makes a huge difference on how easy it steers along with tire width. I run a 205/75R15 at 40 psi, when it sets for a while or gets cold and the pressure drops, it shows in the turning effort. I would never consider power assist to this steering set up, the ratio is way to quick, in fact it's a little spooky making quick turns now. The power steering gear box would need a much slower ratio or a smaller diameter steering wheel would be needed.

My searches have mostly pulled up that disc is recommended for a v8, thoughts? Just cruising around town. I do need a 5 bolt pattern up front to match the rear however.
And the people around here drive nuts. Very crowded with the oil boom, and it's a lot of stop and go and they are all in a hurry.

My axle isn't installed, front is on jack stands. But I noticed.. my front spring packs have like 8 leafs and my rear has 6. Is this right?

No...originally your front and rear should each have had 8 leaves. However replacement rear springs may have had 6 or 7.

Jon

What year and size truck?

Hi Tim,
My answer assumes he's talking about the 1950 3100 he mentioned he was working on (in a different and previous post).
Jon

Ah . . .

Matt,

In each new post, tell us the make, model/series, and year truck you are referring to.

My mistake guys, I thought I did ha! Yep 1950 Chevy 3100. Has 350 and th350, rear axle, and MC and brake pedal with bracket from the donor 1984 c10.

I got my new to me stock suspension installed. I'll need to replace the bushings and kingpins and whatever else. I also needed to have it be able to roll. Now that I have the correct ride height, I finally bolted my trans crossmember all up and set my angle. I'm now working on some cab repairs, it will be a bit until I order my front axle stuff.

Do you guys recommend a sway bar?

Ride stabilizer "anti-sway bars" were standard equipment on panel/suburban trucks 47-55st. Over those hears, there were two different styles, with different types of bushings. They make a positive difference.

Rubber bushings are available from a few reproduction parts/rubber vendors.

Youngsters (under 50) who've never actually driven anything with a straight axle, drum brakes, etc. go into a complete panic when confronted with old technology. They'll tell you it's not safe, you'll kill a bus load of orphans! Yet millions of semi-trucks are on the interstates today with exactly that equipment. And speaking as someone who has decades of experience with obsolete automotive technology, if properly maintained you'd be surprised how good it can ride and handle.

One of the reasons I'm leaning towards a front disc conversion is that I'll get to have 5 lug up front to match the rear. I haven't found and hubs that are 5 lug in my catalogs... can they be redrilled? If I went through either modifying or buying new ones, I figured I might as well buy disc kit.

Unless you guys have any ideas. I guess there's also the option of turning my rear axle into a 6 lug, but again if it adds up....

I may be wrong but(heard that somewhere before), I believe the hubs and backing plates from a 54 chevy car will work on the truck spindles and they are 5 lug.

Could I still use my dual master cylinder I have from my donor if I did something like that?

The master cylinders are different for disk/drum and drum/drum.

I'm debating this same issue on my '46 half-ton right now. I just finished redoing the entire suspension on a '67 Dodge pickup. Rebuilt straight axle (new kingpins, leaf spring bushings, shackles, etc). I also added power disc brakes and power steering. Frankly, even after all that I'm a little disappointed in the way the truck handles. I was hoping for something I could just jump in and drive, and it still drives like a 51-year old truck (perhaps my expectations were too high). In retrospect I wish I would have just done a front clip or MII crossmember. My plan for the '46 had been to keep the straight axle and just upgrade to either discs or Bendix brakes (I have a complete front axle off a '59 to rob of spindles and brake parts), but now I'm concerned that I'll be similarly disappointed in the '46 after the work. For nearly the same money I could do an MII...