The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Front disc brake bracket hits steering stop

So I'm putting a front brake conversion kit on my '53 3100 and the cpp disc conversion bracket hits the steering stop that prevents the axle spindle from going "too far" in either direction.

If i mount the caliper behind the wheel (recommended) I can no longer turn.

I pulled the stop off to see if I can reverse it -- not without some drilling and tapping...

So my options are:

A) mount the caliper in the forward position (in front of the wheel)
B) take my axle off and flip it around

A is obviously simpler... But are there major concerns with this?
As for b... Are the steering stops usually on the front of the axle? And if so, is there another compelling reason why I should consider flipping the front axle around?

Option C is grind down the king pin bolt and steering stop so the bracket clears... However, the caliper hits the axle before the s steering stop then...

Is that a problem?

Did your kit come with instructions?

Can you post pics?

Try calling cpp , something dose not sound right, but I used the P;O.L kit

Looks like I'm not alone: https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=395315

Instructions? Ha. Barely. CPP is not winning any awards on my book.

Called tech at CPP and the response was "flip the stop over". It's symmetrical... That won't do anything.

Can sometime send a pic of what a stop should look like? Mine is a steel flat bent in an l-shape. It has a nub that seats in a hole behind the king pin bolt it is bolted on to.

At this point as i reach for my grinder the biggest question is " how bad is it if the thing stopping me from over steering is the caliper hitting the axle?"

Stop looks just like this one: [img]http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/...uspension_rebuild-steering_stop_tabs.jpg[/img]

My caliper body hits on the knob on the axle just to the left of the grease zirk in the above photo.

Solutions:

1. Don’t worry about it because it will not likely cause a problem.

2. Remove the “knob” on the axle. ( not sure of the “knobs” purpose )

3. Modify the steerng stops by relocating the mounting hole, make them larger or add material to the spindle where the stop lands.

[img]https://plus.google.com/102285877402416664124/posts/RbgRrx3LFXg[/img]

I just mounted that kit on my 41 1/2 ton with the same result. I fixed it by grinding a little bit off of the wheel stop. It didn't take much.

Thinking grinding... Both the stop and the mysterious knob showkey highlights. (Curious to know why it's there) The idea of the caliper hitting that knob just seems like a bad idea to me.

So mounting the caliper in front of the axle is a bad idea?

Im not familiar with the cpp kit

It there an offset the the caliper brackets?

This is the 5 lug... It doesn't have an offset (flat bracket).

(I did look at the 6-lug which was offset.)

My kit was not that same as yours

Hopefully someone will answer up

With My P.O.L. Kit I may have had to grind down the king pin bolt just a little

...click...

But it was a 6 lug off set bracket

I also had the same problem with my CCP kit. I had to grind the area on the caliper brackets where the steering stop passes through...I also have to fabricate new steering stops (the little pieces held by the kingpin bolt). It's a bummer. Once I got the bracket to clear, the disc brake hose on the caliper hits before the steering stop hits.

Seems like a different bracket with the caliper rotated clockwise around the axle (say centered at the 10 o'clock position) would avoid the axle bang... might even provide enough clearance for the steering stop without having to modify anything.

Now all I need is a machine shop...

One thing to consider which may give you some piece of mind is that you will likely be traveling at a snail's pace when the disc brake apparatus contacts the stop or the "knob". I can't imagine anything catastrophic happening while chasing snails in tight circles unless the hose is hitting something.
Carl

Mounting the Caliper in front of the wheel is OK. I'm doing disc brakes from a different Co. On my truck their both froward of the center line.

This is what the CPP kit says. (It does not say to grind anything or drill anything or go to a machine shop.)

"This kit contains everything at the spindle needed to change your 6-lug drum brakes to 5-lug on 4-3/4" GM passenger car bolt circle disc brakes while retaining the stock spindles."


1. I would not do ANYTHING to the kit. I may slightly grind something on my truck if necessary.
2. If there is no technical help, I would send it back and buy from someone else.
3. NOTHING can hit except the stops. Nothing can interfere.
4. If these kits don't fit, we need to hold the vendor accountable. It's up to them to disclose this info before a purchase. If it's user error or non standard truck parts, different story.
5. You are thinking of changes that could cause brake failure and you definitely are modifying the kit/installation and rendering it non returnable.
6. You did not post the instructions as asked. We need info to help you just like you need help from us. You must respond to all questions and requests for info.
We may catch something or understand the problem better to help.

I was pleased with the quality of my CPP kit with the new hubs. But.......the rotor mounting bolt holes in the hubs were drilled too small and the counter sink on the rotor mounting bolts was too shallow. I did not call them or complain as the fix was easy.

I also did not call or complain on the minor interference on the lock to lock turning.

Bart, you are right on the money here. They need it to be right to market it. Back in 2011 I bought a chrome steering column from them (CPP) for my roadster and the entire run of them were defective and dangerous, as it turned out, enough of us called and complained and CPP recalled and replaced the entire lot for nothing.

Sounds like the CPP 6 bolt kit I previously ordered. Not only were the holes drilled wrong, and the countersinks wrong, and the clearance wrong, but the bearing adapters in my kit were completely off, and (of course) the steering stop issue. I returned the the whole thing out of disgust.

Sure they're relatively "easy" fixes, but it showed lack of quality control, lack of pride in product, and lack of concern for the customer. One minor issue is forgivable, but that many is insulting.

Imagine my dismay when the new kit I ordered from a completely different company came with a CPP bracket that... surprise! doesn't fit right either.



I'm happy making minor adjustments here and there -- grinding some excess off, but looking at it closer, I'd have to take a chunk of my axle out to keep the caliper from hitting it (not just the triangular knob). So, yeah, I agree.

As for the instructions: http://www.classicperform.com/Instructions/PDF/4759DBK-5.pdf

#5 is where we run into issues ... even AFTER reversing the kingpin locking bolt so it (and the steering stop) is on the front of the axle.

I'm willing to entertain the notion of user error... but I've assembled this thing every way I can think of.

Who'd you get it from? I'm ready to give up on CPP.

I think I just attached a few pictures showing

1) Where the caliper hits axle
2) Gap between steering stop and spindle at "full lock" (aint getting there because caliper hits axle)
3) The bracket in question. (CPP 4759DBK5)

I just looked at my truck and the steering stop is on the back side of the axle, might want to check that out.

The axle in my '37 is not a '37 axle, I believe it's early '50's, with that being said, the axle stops are on the back side as well. You sure the axle is facing the right direction, and will it make any difference?
I will go look at my disk set-up, it uses the same calipers, I bought mine in 1999 from Master Power brakes.

I reversed the steering stops and kingpin bolts (moved from back to front) on the recommendation of CPP when the bracket wouldn't clear the stop or the nut in the original position (without grinding them to oblivion).

Think this is the answer for the caliper hitting the “knob”. Drill a small hole for the location pin on the stop to fit the back ( other ) side of the axle.


PS. It appears over the years some of the axles may have gotten flipped around. Guessing originally steering stops were on the back side??


As far modifications and modern upgrades for 50-70 year old vehicles ............non of these kits or parts are “bolts right in”. In fact that used to be a joke at the swap meets...........does this fit xyz............sure “bolts right in”.

"PS. It appears over the years some of the axles may have gotten flipped around. Guessing originally steering stops were on the back side??" (Quote from Showkey)

I don't know if that is possible. I tried to do that by accident and the bolt holes in the axle would not match up to the leaf springs since the the springs do not run parallel to each other, hence the hole alignment issue.

Now, just a cotton-pickin' minute - - - - -why don't all the bolt holes in the bracket line up with the holes in the spindle? Is it possible you've got it installed upside down? Try it with the two holes at the bottom of the spindle instead of the top.
Jerry

I agree..........I looked at mine during the complete rebuilding and concluded the spring perch did appear to fit better one way vs the other. Think it’s due to the frames rails tapering in. My stops ended up on the front.

Ha! They do all line up, that one was just left out during the repeated bolt-and-unbolt of sizing (and camera angle makes it look like it don't line up). Flipping the bracket upside down means wrong sized holes (bottom bolts larger than top.)

Been on the phone with CPP (and the original seller) and best I can get is:

"Hmmm that's odd. We sell hundreds of these and never heard anything."

Which tells me more people should speak up when there is an issue.

Off to fab some new steering stops, I guess.

Yesterday I welded a small nut onto the edge of the stop to extend it, then ground it down little by little until I was satisfied with where it was stopping. Carl- you are right, the leaf spring U-bolt holes in the front axle are drilled to match the lateral spring angle- I don't think it's possible to reverse the front axle because of this.

Finally started installing my speedway kit and sure enough exactly what everyone else has been encountering. I am debating on making it work by grinding the stop but as Dave noted I dont like the brake line hitting the axle bump. I really dont like the idea of modifying it based on it being sold as "bolt in" if they stated up front some modification required that would be fine but based on how many people that probably buy the kit it is BS.
Does anyone know of another manufacturers kit that actually fits?

Thanks,
Eric

^^^^^^^^Think they are all variations of the same parts. Many sellers are just resellers of the same kits purchased at a discount. Some resellers mention the kits are drop shipped ........meaning they are coming from another vendor or supplier.


Watching even the best high end restorations and Hot rod builders are always commenting on stuff being modified to fit.

I know this thread is a bit old but I didnt see a solution. Has anyone tried removing the fastener and shorten the lock pin? The stop is about 1/4 inch thick L-shaped metal. Might be able to cut the lock pin an 1/8 and use 1/8 inch angle iron for a new low profile stop. Perhaps remove the L stop and just thread a nut on a shortened lockpin? ....I think Norcal Dave may have stated this.

Still looking for a solution before I start cutting anything.

Thanks!

I'm a little late on this one. What I did with my CPP kit install. Just take the stops off. Won't hurt anything. Been using it that way for years. However one change I would make is, don't use the dry locks, replace with drilled cotterpin nuts. I had to make mine using grade 8 bolts. To my horror last year as I was inspecting the front end and greasing couple of the drylock nuts were about off.

I'm having same issue as OP. I called their tech support. A few days ago. Was told to grind the stops enough for clearance. I asked about caliperhitting and he said my tires would contact before the calipers did....

Hi guys I have a different problem I have the CPP kit from speedway. It looks like I need to drill out the lower spindle hole because the bracket hole is bigger 1/2 inch than the 7/16 but I also have to drill out my steering arm that attaches to the back. It does have a little note that that's possible in the instructions but the videos online I've seen and I've look nobody else has done that has anybody else had to do that?
Thanks
I have a 49 3100

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As I recall .........The bottom Holes must be drilled ( both spindle and steering arm).

I have the same issue. The bolts on the bottom are 1/2". I'm wondering if I should try to drill at home or take it all to a machine shop, that is a whole lot of steel to drill. My kit is from classic industries. I have the same issue with the stop as well but just barely, I won't have to do much grinding. No instructions and the bracket mounts a bit different, it uses spacers to move the whole bracket out a bit.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

At home was fine..........it’s really not a “big deal”. 7/16” to 8/16”

It would be a lot more work to remove the spindle........vs..........drilling while on the axle.

True True. I just got my spindles back on too so not too excited about removing them again. Here's what my kit looks like. I haven't seen any other kits like it. I wanted 5x5 bolt pattern, this is the only one I found with that pattern.