The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rebuilding 1954 235 Cam Upgrade?

Greetings Stovebolters. I’m in the process of rebuilding my 54 235 truck engine bored .030 over that will be going into my 47 Chevy Fleetline. I’m at the point where I will need to replace the old cam for the reason that it’s a bit pitted. While I’m at it, I might as well upgrade it for performance. Low end torque would be preferable. What cam do you guys recommend? Would the corvette cam work best? I don’t need anything extreme, this is just a cruiser but a few more horses would be welcome. Thanks for your insight.

P.S. Will I need new lifters for the new cam, and do they make roller rockers and lifters for stovebolt? Thanks1947 Fleetline

Elgin Industries makes a replica of the 261/"Corvette" cam that works very well as an upgrade without getting into manifold vacuum problems and a lopey idle. Yes, you'll need new lifters (solid lifters for that cam). No, roller rockers aren't available for stovebolts, nor are they needed. Stovebolts can't turn enough RPM to need exotic valve gear.
Jerry

Excellent, thanks for the info Jerry, I’ll look right into that. Sounds like what I’m looking for. By the way, have you or one of your friends tried this setup? Did it work well?

Back last fall, a group of us assembled a 261 engine for John's big pickup over at Stovebolt Headquarters. I did the whole setup, including degreeing the cam like we used to do on the race engines, and it's as good a part as I've ever seen- - - -right on the money on every lobe we checked. John is very pleased with its performance- - - -lots of low end torque, plus better top speed than he had before.

http://www.elginind.com

Their online catalog isn't cooperating tonight- - - -give them a call and ask about a cam for a 54-62 Chevy 261 truck engine. It's the same grind as the one in the 235 Corvette engine. They advertise it as having a 290 degree lobe duration, but they're including the clearance ramps. The actual valve lifting area of the lobes is about 255 degrees- - - -perfect for good low end torque and a smooth idle. The lobe profile is very similar to Comp Cams'260 degree "High Energy" cam, but they don't grind that one for the 235/261 engine. It's my first choice for the 230/250/292 engines, though!

The alternative is Schneider cams in San Diego. They have done my last four cams. Here is the thing, you call, you talk to the boss, you tell him what you are doing with the motor, the vehicle, trans, gears, weight, and he will recommend a grind and then you send him your cam and they regrind your cam to specification. I have had very good luck with their cams in terms of quality and service. So now you have a couple of choices.

The price looks good on this 261 cam for use in high pressure 235 or any 261?

If installed in hydraulic-lifter high-pressure 235, the lifters would have to be changed to mechanical lifters (I guess/suppose)?

I’ll give them a call ASAP. That cam sounds like it’s right on the money. I’m guessing it’s good for 5-10 more horsepower?

Hi Mike, I’m wondering, is your guy pretty affordable? What is his usual asking price? I might be able to compare and save. Thanks

Be careful- - - - -when a cam grinder caters to racers, he tends to recommend stuff that's far too radical for the street. It's the old "I've got a big hammer, so everything looks like a nail" situation. It really is possible to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, but it makes the pigs look funny and they don't hear very well. The tech rep at Elgin I talked to said they used a GM factory cam for a 261 as a pattern, and duplicated it exactly.
Jerry

Horsepower claims are for bragging and bench racing. What really counts is torque, and the 261 cam has gobs of it.
Jerry

That is true, I guess I just generically say horsepower gains, but the important thing of course is torque. That sounds like a great cam, thanks.

Scheneider has done two fairly radical cams for me for my 261 motors, and reground two other cams, one for a 261 and the other for a 235. I wanted a little more lift out of those reground cams and just a speck more duration then the stock 261 cam, not so radical as the others. They were ground something along the lines of the old Clifford 264 cams. Jerry Cantrell is the owner, he is generally the one you speak to and is a terrific resource. I have not used an elgin cam not because I think there is anything wrong with them only because what I am getting from Schneider has been really good quality and I have had no problems with their cams being ground on too soft of a core, breaking in, longevity, or making good power (relatively speaking with these motors, lol) and/or torque (when I am building a more street oriented motor). I don't know about cost comparison but I messed up one of my radical cams clearancing the flats on the cam shaft for rod bolt clearance (one of the things that has to be dealt with when using the GMC rods in a chevy motor. Even though I had taped up the lobes and was careful I still managed to nick a lobe and then found out that when you mess with the cam like this you bend it all out of shape). I am pretty sure it was under 100 for the regrind and retreating of the cam. Broke in perfectly and runs like all get out.

Over the years I have used cams from quite of few of the cam grinders. One of my earliest was a Chet Herbert regrind. He use to advertise $39 any cam any grind. That was a really good cam. I still have the paper work for that cam and its noted as having a R31 grind. Over the years I have speculated that Chet did not actually grind that cam because that R31 was not how they generally identified their cams but its just speculation. Still in the motor but sitting in the back of my garage. Moon did one for me, it was ok. I have used at least two Clifford, they were fine but expensive, Erson was probably the original source for those cams. I used an Isky once (ran fine but not great) and a Howard (same thing). Tom Langdon at Stovebolt likes the Delta "Bull Dog" cam which I believe is a slightly hotter version of the 261 cam. You can call Tom at Stovebolt Engine Co. Tom is a good man to talk to, a former GM engineer, inline NHRA record holder, longtime member of inliners and about as smart as them come with these motors. Jerry (hotrod Lincoln) likes the Elgin 261 truck cam. There is always lots of opinions on cams for these motors. The thing for me is that I am not a cam engineer. What I know is that the exhaust of a 848 head flows at best around 110 cfm or so. The intake a little more but nothing dramatic. Depending on the vehicle, you can tinker with duration and lift to get some optimum results depending on what you are looking to get from your motor. Schneider is a good resource for me because I am not stuck with whatever grind is catalogued. I can get something a little more tailored to what I want the motor to do, sometimes just a nice stock regrind (which is what Schenieder is going to do next. I have a really complete 55 stick motor, never been apart with all the accessories intact. So I am going to restore that motor to stock.) The quality and advice are excellent so if they charge a premium I am happy to pay it to get a good product and so far theirs has not let me down so I am a little gun shy in trying another brand at the moment.

I can't say enough good about Delta Cams in Tacoma Washington. I have been buying cams from them for forty years. I have bought regrinds for stock engines, modified and full out race engines. Recently I gave up on the noisey hydraulics in my 235 and had them grind a hotter version of the solid lifter truck cam. Couldn't be happier.
Steve

http://deltacam.com/

Hydraulics noisey ????? solid lifters quite ????? you must mean that tick ,tick, tick , at start up ?

Yeah those lousy offshore hydraulic lifters were noisy than all hell.

Hotrod-

I've been following your 261 cam adventure and found the catalog working on the site you posted. Part #E-293-S. I also am looking at getting that cam, but want to confirm its with Elgin Industries in Illinois and not Elgin Cams in Santa Rosa, CA. Which did you guy get the 261/Corvette cam from?

Thanks!

Elgin Industries. Elgin Cams is a custom cam grinder that specializes in racing cams. E-293S is the correct number, the same one we installed in John's 261. They call it a "290 degree" duration, but that includes the clearance ramps where the valve isn't off the seat. The actual "valve open" duration with a degree wheel is in the mid-250's. That's just right for good low end torque and smooth idle.
Jerry

yea, the new hydraulic lifters are tough. I think I posted this on another thread, but a very close friend of mine owns a machine shop in my area (getting few and far between these days so its nice to have that resource). He had taken on a job rebuilding a 51 powerglide motor for a customer. Used a set of the new manufactured hydraulic lifters. Had a couple collapse almost immediately after startup. Replaced the entire set two more times before he called me. For whatever reason, and I don't actually remember how I ended up with them, I had a complete nos hydraulic set for that motor. Gave them to him, and as the allman brothers said, trouble no more.

Two years ago I was at the trifive nationals. One of the guys there had his grandmother's 55 235 powerglide station wagon there. Never ever restored, in all of its original patina. It was tremendous. Its been years since I had a 235 or 261 of my own that has not been modified. But when he started that motor, it was whisper quiet. I was so reminded of just how well a stock hydraulic cam 235 runs, including my own when I first got it in the middle 70s when I was a teenager.

So I stick to my guns here. If you want to build a hydraulic cam 235, make finding an nos set of lifters, or an aftermarket set of lifters (25 years old or older) a first priority in your parts search (making an nos oil pump pickup your second priority, lol)

Someone mentioned the possibility of sleeving the lifter bores to accomodate hydraulic lifters for a different engine (MOPAR, maybe?) It shouldn't be too difficult to find a more reliable lifter that could be retro-fitted to the stovebolt block. As long as the oil fill hole is in about the right location, the lifter doesn't care what kind of engine it's installed into.
Jerry

Agree with all of the above, my last cam in the 261 was a Bulldog grind from Delta Cams really nice and great low end. Also heard of lots of really bad quality 'new' hyd lifters, NOS show up on ebay for BIG dollars.
Best of luck

The .904" MoPar lifter may work, but the pushrod ball diameter and the height of the pushrod cup in the tappet (not the overall tappet height) may require a different pushrod entirely.
A common sleeve material is 660 bronze, available as hollow “cored rounds” in common fractional sizes. 1” OD × ¾” ID can be bought in a single length, reduced to .9905” etc. OD for a light press fit, reamed for clearance to suit the tappet body, and sawed into 12 individual bushings. The bushings require holes through both sides to permit oil pressure to transfer across each tappet bore.
I don't know if the wall thickness (.990" - .904" = .086", ÷ 2 = .041") is enough for safety. The smaller .875" (Ford) or .842" (GM) tappet may be a better choice.
Another factor is the height of the oil supply groove - will it line up with the Chevrolet supply gallery? The tappet body must seal your hydraulic lifter gallery during the entire lift range, and the feed port must be inside the gallery and exposed to pressure much of the time.
This is precision work, especially the alignment of the sleeve, except to pay accordingly.

I do my own machine work, to tolerances in the +/- .0002" range, routinely. I've never had problems holding those tolerances for the past 40-something years. I'd choose 304 stainless tubing, finished inside and out with a tool post grinder. .040" wall thickness on a sleeve the size of a lifter with the proper press fit wouldn't be a problem at all.
Jerry

Any advice on Solid lifters? Which ones to buy or stay away from? I see some sets for $120 on Ebay. A set from Egge is about $258+. Sealed Power off of Rockauto is about $135. Don't wanna get any duds.

There's not much that can go wrong with a solid lifter. The short ones that resemble a hydraulic lifter without the internal parts use a longer pushrod than the older "milk can" style, so be sure you use the pushrod that matches the style of lifter you're installing. Sealed Power has been around since the 1930's at least- - - -it's hard to go wrong with an established company like that, unless somebody has bought the name and started selling repop parts from overseas instead of the good stuff. I think "Carter" fuel pumps are being sold that way these days which are nowhere near the quality of the older stuff.
Jerry