The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop The correct AD Interior color indeed!!

Well after agonizing over the interior paint for my 1950, 3604 for the past eight months, I started painting some small parts. The “correct” ALK-200 paint I bought from JC looks like grayish brown mud, totally flat and no metallic that I can see at all.
I spent an hour with a new PPG dealer in another town and he bent over backwards to help me and came up with a Ford Arizona Beige Metallic in DBU. The chip looked real close in the sun light but when I tried my mix it is to light, not enough brown tint to it and is way to heavy on the metallic flakes. So I’m now a hundred bucks into paint plus all the shipping, driving and time and still don’t have a color that I am happy with.
I need to take a brake from this for a while, I can’t afford to keep on trying a quart of every thing that looks close.
I’d like to post some picks of the samples I made up but the confuser that can handle that is shot and I tain’t gonna spring for a new one now.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, I don't really understand what you are after. In one post you are looking for a pic of a side mounted spare tire rack so you can fab one for your 50, in another you mention putting LED lights on the bed rails, in another you want to put a bracket for a crank and in another you make staples for the cat whiskers and mention pay attention to the small details. Now, the side mounted spare would be three years before original, the LED lights in the bed rails surely aren't original and the ADs didn't have cranks. Far from the small details that you mention. What the farmers added to these old trucks isn't ORGINIAL!

Now, why are you so concerned about the exact shade of the interior?

And another thing, you will have to deal with the after market parts, some work some don't. We all have been through the same thing. Either send it back or make it work. I have sent a lot back and made a lot work. But, I never went on this forum or any other and whined about what poor quality it was, it doesn't fit and etc. Bottom line, if you don't like it don't buy it. None of us really like the after market parts but sometimes that is all we have.

And also, after reading your many frequent post, it's seems to me that you like to ask a question and then come back to debunk the answer, as if that was what you had in mind before you asked.

Maybe you should spend more time on that truck that you want to make "ALL ORIGINAL" and a little less time on the keyboard!!!

Go here to see pics of my truck that I had done before I ever heard of this forum. What I am trying to say, you don't have to come here and snivel about every little thing that goes wrong. Be a man, deal with it!!!!

Denny...I would have to agree with AD_Pickup on this one. Building and/or rebuilding these old trucks should be fun, but after reading some of your posts it doesn't sound like you're having a good time on yours. I agree that some of the after matket parts are not completely up to speed, but atleast we're able to get them. I would like to give credit to some of the guys in here who did their trucks 20 years ago when there wasn't internet or the vendors selling the neccesary parts needed. I can't imagine doing my truck now without some of the so-so parts available. Heck, sometimes it's kinda fun to refab some of the parts I get that don't fit right.

Just have fun and roll with it my friend.
~Ron

Ok guys, ya made me feel bad, I suppose that was what you had in mind. I’m really sorry that my post or replies bother you so much. I can’t for the life of me, understand why you would bother reading anything I submitted if it causes you so much pain. I've made no attempt to hide my real name, it is always right up there in plain site. I’ve never laid claim to have a degree in journalism but I do really try to make my effort interesting, informative and inject a little dry humor at times.
Maybe I don’t understand what the forum is for. Or maybe I was under the wrong impression, in thinking it was to exchange ideas, ask questions, share your experiences, there by saving others from making the same mistakes over and over.
I never really thought that it would create such a problem with some of you, i.e., reporting on bad products, bad processes, bad vendor service. If you have read what I have posted I think you will see that when a product is up to snuff I give it full credit. It appears there are a few that only want to hear the good things and would rather put the blinders on to the bad. I have a lot of friends who have the “let them learn it the hard way” attitude. In the end it really isn’t any skin off my back to let a new guy make the same mistake that I made by purchasing poor quality products, then having to send them back, but that wasn’t the way I was brought up. I can’t help but think that if someone had “whined” as you call it, about the poor quality of the parts they had gotten, that I could have avoided that vendor and chosen another. That sure would have saved me the trouble and expense of having to send back parts. To some it may be whining, I happen to think that others might consider such a post as informative. I suppose it’s all in the way you look at it, the glass half full or half empty sort of thing. Also my pockets aren’t as deep as some people, and the last time I checked it wasn’t to cost effective to send stuff back an pay restocking fees that could have been avoided had I read a members report. Case in point was my recent encounter with upholstery which given more information certainly would have saved time and money. Is there any thing wrong with saving time and money, or am I missing something here?

In reference to my “debunking the answer”; If I initially posted a question on Monday, by Friday I would hope that I knew more about the topic. So a reply on Friday would most likely sound like I was more informed. We all post replies that miss the point or at times don’t make sense. I do not take every reply as gospel nor do I expect anyone to assume everything that I post is written in stone. I see nothing wrong with gathering as many different opinions on a subject in order to draw a logical conclusion. If that conclusion is in deference with one of the contributors view of the topic then I can see where they may think of it as “debunking” their answer.

I doubt if you want to hear an answer to what sounded to me like a question on the interior paint! But here goes anyway. I kind of look at a complete interior paint job as more or less permanent, usually looked upon as kind of a major task to correct it later. If one decided to show the truck or if for some reason you decided to sell the truck it would enhance the value if it looked original. To me, it’s the same thing with pop rivets instead of staples, , kind of hard to change that back to original. About the LED lights, I didn’t really say or intend to say that I was planning on adding them. There was a lot of discussion on the subject and I thought I might throw in my feelings on the subject. And like a certain Don that was in the news of late, I probably could have selected my choice of words better. Even if I did decide to slip a pair in the roll, or plug replacement leds into the taillight, it’s just takes a second to pull them out and your back to stock. I have thought about mounting a set of radial tires as long as I didn’t have to modify the hubs or steering for them. Again, a matter of minuets to change back to the original bias plies if I needed to. I will admit to being a heretic as I have added a right hand taillight, and once again, remove two bolts and it’s back to stock. The crank and bracket, spare mount, tool kit, these only takes a few minuets to pop a bolt or two out and your back to stock.

You also suggest spending more time on in the garage. Well since I don’t have to punch the time clock and answer to the man anymore I can pretty much spend my time the way I want to. I’m normally up about 05:00 and down about 23:00. I spend a couple of hours on the computer (except for tonight) and the rest, pretty much, in the shop, seven days a week if possible. Don’t know how I could put much more time than that in on her.

And Ron, thanks for the advice, I am having fun! It’s fun for me to figure out how they did stuff at the factory and try to duplicate it. It’s fun to make up the jigs and fixtures to recreate parts that look like they are factory made. It’s fun to listen to all the ideas that the forum members come up with to solve problems, even if I might disagree with their methods at times. It’s fun to see what some of the guys are doing to modify their rides, even if it’s not the way I want mine to look. It’s fun to pretend that I’m restoring my truck to what it may have been a few years after it left the show room.
And finally, it’s not fun by any stretch of the imagination, unless of course you’re a masochist, to pay hard earned cash for stuff that doesn’t fit, has to be reworked and is not what it’s advertised to be. If that is the case then you might as well make it your self in the first place. We are consumers, and they are suppliers, no different than purchasing a new car or television. As long as we accept poor quality merchandise as the norm, then they will make no effort to change it. As I have said before, all you have to do is look toward the automobile industry today to see how that works.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Wow.What a soap box. 1843 words in that post. Anyone top that?

Your paint should not be a loss. Take it back to the paint dealer if possible and have it tinted to suit you. They would like to have an original color sample to match to if possible. Paint with a brush, a small spot and compare until the dried color is satisfactory.

Denny,

From whom did you get that color recommendation? Is it a recommendation from the PPG Color Library (as a recommended modern offset for the original color)?

Or, is it a color selected by you and the PPG jobber?

Tim

I enjoy reading Denny's posts. Ok, maybe once in a while he comes across as a little nitpicky, but I for one appreciate him sharing his travels down the restoration road. I have gained an insight or two that wouldn't have have been shared if he had a different posting style.

Sorry bout that one Beaver, just had to get that off me chest!
Tim I have read you posts on offsets, I believe it was on another forum, a hot rod forum maybe??
Very interesting, a tad confusing, but very interesting. We picked it out of a book. We had about all of the books of chip samples out that the store had on the shelf and the color was out of one of the books. The chip did look pretty close out in the sun next to the original seat panel. I'm not totally sure I can condemn it yet because I was just applying the sample with a cloth so it may change a little after I spray some. My body shop/painter buddy was saying that the metallics have changed a lot in recent years, that they are closer to pearls than metallics and that is why it’s hard to match the old metallics. It does seem like the DBU metallic is a lot more dense than the metallic on the AD interior. In other words more flakes per inch.
The JC stuff really is offfff, by a bunch so I hope others will head the warning there.
This color tinting is certainly an art, it surely isn’t as simple as point to a color and mix. “Painter buddy” also said he used to deal with some old timers that could mix you a color by eye and nail it most every time, but they are dying off or retiring and the new guys just don’t seem to have the knack for it. The PPG dealer ran a scans first when I brought the sample in and it came up with some shade of gray that was way off. That disapointed me, I had a good sample that wasn't badly faded and I thought it could come closer to the original.
But, we’ll get there one way or another.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,

Here is the information that is listed at the bottom of the A-D Paint Codes Tech Tip . I do not know if those phone numbers are still good but no one has told me otherwise.

Good luck,
Tim

PPG has an excellent Color Library that most PPG jobbers do not know about (PPG Automotive Refinish, Customer Support Center, CSC). The color library can tell you if the original color is still available or, if it is not, they will usually have an "offset" number for a matching color. DUPONT does not provide this service .

The PPG Color Library can usually provide matches if you have Year, Model, Name of Color (sometimes they can tell you the colors that were available); but, it helps to have the PPG/Ditzler color code/number (in the table above). They do not have a way of showing you the colors.

440-572-6100 PPG Color Library - had all the paint codes that I needed for a 1954 restoration.
440-572-6111 PPG Tech Services Refinish (gave me the phone number for the Color Library)
440-572-6871 FAX number for the PPG Color Library (they will fax you modern color off-sets and formulas). Maybe they are now able to send this information via email?

Thanks TC, I'll try those phone numbers today. I've seen thia chart before but I thought I also saw some discussion to the effect that these mumbers wouldn't convert. There is a paint number for the dash and I am assuming that would apply to the rest of the interior also. There is no listing for the mast jacket though for the '50, guess I'll just have to wing it there.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Keep typing Denny Boy; that's why this forum is here.

I contacted the PPG color library Tim. The number has changed to 1-800-647-6050. Asked for an offset for the Ditzler 31104 listed on the chart. The lady told me that she would have to make up a formula for that and would email it to me. She had to make it up in DBU and from what I understand with out the clearcoat that's DUI. I got the email an hour or so later, a series of numbers, colors and proportions. I called it in to the dealer an hour away then me and the dog drove down to pick up another qt. of DBU/DUI.
The tint looks right in the can, that's all I can say right now. I haven't had a chance to spray any samples yet.
Denny (the nit-picker)Graham
Sandwich, IL

Good news, Denny. I will change the phone number in the Tech Tip.

Please let us know what you think about the color.

Good luck,
Tim

Denny...I am on my first resto...I had problems with everything, I actually put my truck away for 4 months this year,cause i couldnt handle it.Nothing fiting..and nothing working..I just pulled the sheet off of it...and it is still there.I finally decided to just work on 1 thing at a time.And it is fun again. The beers tasting better too. M/G

Thanks for the encouragement Mike. Yep, some times I get to running so fast my feet won’t keep up with my legs, then I have to pull in on the reins. I took a break this week, went to a grand wedding, and reception at the Medina Shriner’s grand ball room. That renewed my faith in the future of mankind, now I’ll try to get things back on track this week. Your absolutely correct in saying that you have to focus on one thing at a time.
I suppose you can say I create some of my own problems, although my “big old wife” says I create all of my own problems. My painting has kind of ground to a screeching halt here in the garage and I need to move the operation to the out building. I have been unable to clear out the hanger in the back yard. Twenty years ago when I had a real job, one of my hobbies was flying. I built a 45x40x14 pole building sixty feet out, away from the house. I still have two planes in there taking up space that have been grounded for 18 years. In a manic state I hadn’t considered the fact that I would have to pay for the building. That left me short cash to finance the flying. Well at least I got enough years in the air that I can say that, “ I’ve been there, done that”. Now that I’m over it I really need to get rid of those birds and make some room for a truck, a lift, and a spry booth. But then there was the Antique Radio bug that bit me also. I was collecting Old Time Radio Shows on tape (6,000) and I was feeling nostalgic one day so I decided I needed a big old Philco console to play the tapes through. That little jaunt took me through three hundred radios, and all the period radio repair test equipment, scopes etc., that I could grab for $20 or less at fifteen years worth of swap meets. I couldn’t pass up the investment in the 25,000 vacuum tubes that I would need to fix those 300 radios and I surely needed the complete sets of schematic drawings from 1925 to 1960 that take up one half of the hanger wall, floor to 14ft ceiling. But at last, I’ve gotten over that one to, and now I’ve come full circle. I’m now back to where I started when I was a car crazy teenager 45 years ago, wanting again to crawl around under old rust buckets.
Anyway, painting truck parts in the attached two car garage is pretty hard to do when you have an asthmatic in the house. Those that have lived with that know what I’m talking about, even the slightest smell can set of an attack. Just can’t seal off the door to the house good enough to keep the smells out. So I have been waiting for the warmer weather so I can do some spraying out side. Maybe then I can get the inside of the doors painted and put them back together, that is, if the interior paint is the right color, this time!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Hay Denny have you tried that new paint out yet

Nope, got a bunch on my plate for the next couple of weeks.
Denny G

Keep posting and I'll keep reading. Every post teaches me something. We all have views to be shared.

Denny,
I agree with dogris. You have helped me see things differently many times. Keep on typing.
Rich