The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 valve tapping question again

1 problem that I have not been able to solve is my 235 engine taps when cold. I have rechecked the valve adjustment replaced lifters 2 times.over the summer I tried different oils and viscosity. 10w30 the tapping goes away faster but when the engine warms up the oil pressure is about 15 psi at idle used 15w40 and sometimes the tapping may take 20 minits to go away.I also put a grove in the bottom of the pushrod to let the air out.I started it a couple times this winter and the valves for some reason stop tapping in about 3 or 4 minits with the 15w40 oil.The only thing I can think is the lifters are after market and not gm and maybe they dont leak down as much in the winter. so they dont need as much oil to fill them back up. Anybody got any other ideas.

What year 235?

Car or Truck 235?

Hydraulic or mechanical lifters?

What procedure do you use to adjust the valve lash?

What is the Engine Serial Number (pressed into the block at the rear of the distributor)?

Your description seems to indicate a hydraulic lifter engine.

1954 car 235 rebuilt engine with hydraulic lifters the car was a 150 or 210 with powerglide. The lifters are aftermarket not gm.I spent a lot of time on this last year but cannot seem to stop it. If I remember correctly I would bring the engine up to top dead center on that cylinder and after the lash is out of the rocker arm I would turn the nut down 1 1/2 turns.Im ok with it tapping for 2 or 3 minits but when its tapping for 20 minits its starts to get on my nerves.if I run the engine everyday tapping is very little and goes away quickly. But if it sits for a month in the summer it could take 20 minits till it stops tapping.

The most accurate way, at least in my opinion, to adjust the lifters is to do it with the motor running. I know, sound ridiculous, but the shop manual static way just does not seem to get the job done. Snap on use to make a tool just for this purpose. Here is an early version.

http://www.lunnysauto.com/detail/Vintage-Snap-On-Pat-No-1544520-Valve-Adjusting_252480756671.html

But You can do it with a Vacco/Klein style screw holding screw driver:

https://www.grainger.com/product/VACO-Steel-Screw-Holding-Screwdriver-2DHC3

and a wrench.

Start the motor, warm it up. turn the idle down to the lowest point you can and still keep the motor running, pull the valve cover, put the wrench on the adjuster nut, the screw driver on the adjuster, slide the tightening slide on the screwdriver down so it stays on the moving valve adjuster, loosen the nut, loosen the adjuster until the valve taps, tighten the screw in until it stops tapping, Go 1/4 to 1/2 more, tighten the nut. Move on to the next valve. Its a bit of a pain, and you have to get use to it but it is an alternative and one that I have found to work better in my view. When I was 16 (1977) and did not know anything about repairing a car, I had an old time mechanic show me how to do this on my 57 235 motor. I have always adjusted hydraulic lifters in this way.

Hey 29Tons ,
There's one of those snap on tools on Ebay right now, its missing the socket but maybe you could find a socket and make it whole again.....

www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Vintage-Snap-on-Valve-Adjuster-Tool/232644436653?hash=item362ab062ad:g:CqIAAOSwC-taPqOs

copy the above link , paste it into you browser, should take you to it on ebay.
Ronnie

Adjusting hydraulic lifters on a running engine is an exercise in frustration- - - - -and it makes the floor slippery. You're not preloading the lifter enough- - - -it needs at least one full turn of the adjuster after the slack is removed from the assembly. Be absolutely sure the cam is on the base circle by watching for "split overlap" on the companion cylinder- - - -intake opening and exhaust closing, called "rocking" .

#6 rocking, adjust #1
#2 rocking, adjust #5
#4 rocking, adjust #3
#1 rocking, adjust #6
#5 rocking, adjust #2
#3 rocking, adjust #4

You can adjust all the valves in two turns of the crankshaft, and they'll all be right.
Jerry

Jerry, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this. The oil does not splatter at all. Maybe with other motors, but not a low idling 235. It just dribbles out of the rockers when the motor is at low idle. So no mess on the floor at all, no oil dripping outside of the motor, it’s all self contained in the head. 1/2 preload is fine, you can go more, I have never had to go more than 1/2 to get them quiet but you can do it. One full turn is usually too much, at least in my experience, when adjusting them on a running motor. You can usually feel the motor studder when you get to a full turn. It’s not hard to do, a little nerve wracking at first, it just requires a little patience. I have adjusted countless 235 motors over the last 40 years this way, most of them were not my motors but other people who just could not get them quiet or running right. It’s a long accepted alternative procedure for adjusting the valves used by countless mechanics over the years simply because it works when the standard procedure dosen’t.

Different strokes- - - - -etc. It's impossible to get an accurate adjustment with the cam lobe slapping the bottom of the lifter several times a second. Warm the engine up, do a non-running (accurate) adjustment, and go drink a couple of cups of coffee before you fire the engine up. It's been working that way for me for 50-something years. One of my students won a $100.00 bet at his uncle's shop when he successfully adjusted a set of valves on a small block Chevy they had been fighting with all day. He was so cocky he even bolted down the valve covers before he started the engine.
Jerry

I never had any luck adjusting the valves on a running engine. The oil isn't the issue. Even with that nice Snap On tool, which I have, you need at lest three hands to make the adjustment and hold the feeler gauge. Also, by the time you're done, your feeler gauge is done, too. The rocker arms will chew the blades up against the valve stem, rendering the gauge inaccurate, in my opinion.

The OP probably had hydraulic lifters, which wouldn't be adjusted with the engine running anyway. 29tons, are you sure the block is drilled for hydraulic lifters? Even though it came from a Powerglide car, doesn't mean that is where it started its life. You can't run hydraulic lifters in a solid lifter block, because there are no oil passages for oil to the lifters.

I have been fighting with the same cold start loud tapping issue with my '53 Powerglide 235. It stops making noise once the temperature comes up. It is louder and takes longer to go away during the winter months. It is just one lifter and they are aftermarket, and they have 10,000 miles on them. I was hoping that this issue would go away with time, as some have suggested often happens. I have gone from 1/4 turn to 1 1/2 turn in, and every position in between to no avail. It is a sticky lifter when cold, and that is just how it is. The benefit is that it forces me to allow the engine to warm up before I leave the house in the mourning, which is what I think I should be doing anyway.
Carl

This was excactly my problem too, tapping hydraulic lifters, sometimes quiet, most the time not, even followed this too:
http://chev235guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Hydraulic%20Lifter%20Noise

Ended up pulling the cam, running it into Delta cam and having it ground for solid lifters. I am so much happier now. It sounds just perfect, slight mechanical sound, just music, not one valve tapping its rear off.

52carl and sstock sounds like we all have the same problem. The strange thing is I have a 51 chevy tin woody with power glide and hydraulic lifters it can sit for years and starts up no noise why? And when the lifters are removed I can see a hole about the size of my pinky finger tip going sideways through the lifter hole I was told that thats how you tell if its a hydraulic lifter motor also the serial number on the motor says that it had a powerglide and those are supposed to have hydraulic lifters. my lifters stop making noise when most of the time it sounds like just 1.

29- - - -what is your oil pressure when the lifter is noisy? The squirt-oilers with Babbit bearings barely had enough oil pump volume to handle a solid lifter system. Add the volume needed to keep a set of hydraulic lifters pumped up, and you're running on the ragged edge of not enough flow all the time. If I can ever get my high volume oil pump conversion up and running, it just might solve a bunch of problems, noisy hydraulic lifters included.
Jerry

My oil pressure cold is 35 to 40 psi When the engine was rebiult I added a 0 to 60 psi gauge and there are no exact markings on the gauge at that pressure.when its hot there is no tapping. I thought that maybe a high volume pump would work. But why does my tin woody sit for years and have no problem with valves tapping.I am an older guy and have several antique vehicles so some sit for long periods of time till I decide to take them for a ride. the woody sat for several years.I fired it after checking fluids drove it over 200 miles in 1 day and parked it again no tapping.The help I have gotten on this site was very helpful but this problem is about the only one I cannot seem to solve.

The '53 235 with Powerglide engine is an insert bearing, full pressure engine, nearly identical to the '54.

OOPS! I got confused with the 51 he was talking about- - - -that doesn't rattle. It sounds like you've got one balky lifter if all of them don't get noisy at the same time. Try running a solvent-type oil additive for a while. We used to use Wynn's Friction Proofing for noisy lifters, but I haven't seen any of it in years. Marvel Mystery oil might be a pretty good substitute.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I will try the Marvel Mystery Snake Oil. If that doesn't do it, I will pull that lifter and take it apart and look for defects.
Carl

I may try what jerry mentioned But I have replaced all the lifters 2 times it sounded like 1 lifter the first time and sounds like 1 lifter the second set. but the wynns or mysetry oil who knows I will try any thing at this point.

Have you checked the cam lift on the noisy valve? It's possible you've got a worn out lobe that will never quiet down because the geometry is all wrong. One cam lobe on John's 261 had an extreme amount of wear so we had to replace the cam and lifters.
Jerry

The engine was rebuilt with new cam and lifters before I got it maybe 2000 miles ago. It was a new engine when I got the truck and it was tapping then.Thats when I replaced the lifters and ground the grove in the pushrods.And ajusted the lifters as I was told on this site the engine is spotless in side I may check that next time I have it apart. The tapping gose away after about 20 minits of running.But thanks for the idea.My liftiers only tap when the enine is could once its warmed up they do not tap the rest of the day no matter how many times I start the engine.I was thinking of tring to find gm lifters maybe the after market ones are junk.

"New" doesn't necessarily mean "good" where camshafts are concerned, but the fact that it quiets down is a promising sign. The first 20-30 minutes of operation of a new cam and lifters is critical, as that's when they're "wearing in" and establishing a running relationship. If the break-in run isn't done properly, a new cam can, and often does get trashed. As soon as a new engine builds up oil pressure, it needs to be run at 1500-2000 RPM for 20 to 30 minutes. This floods the cam with oil thrown off the connecting rods and allow the cam and lifters to establish the proper wear pattern. Idling a new cam can scuff the tips of the lobes and start them wearing severely.

Chances are that hasn't happened, but I'd suggest using a magnetic-base dial indicator to check the lobe lift on the problem rocker arm and compare it to other valves. Noticeably less lift indicates a worn lobe.
Jerry