The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk VIN Question

Hi. I'm in the middle of a mess really. I'm looking at accepting 1 truck for my truck. It's supposedly a '52 5 window with a vin # KBA729567. When I go to look this up it comes back as 'unknown' compared to mine coming back as a '51 3/4 ton Chevrolet. Should I stay away from this or are there exceptions to what I have seen posted for vin numbers?

Thanks Kevin

Where did you look this up, Kevin?

I see the Stovebolt "VIN" buster does not recognize that KBA preface.
Maybe it works with the Vehicle Serial Number?
Is there a Vehicle Serial Number plate on the driver's side door jamb?

KBA is the Engine Serial Number preface for a 1952 Chevrolet 3100 truck assembled in Flint, MI
http://www.1954advance-design.com/chev-specs/1952-Chevrolet-t-ser.jpg

The 1951 3/4 ton Engine Serial Number preface is not that code.
http://www.1954advance-design.com/chev-specs/1951-Chevrolet-t-ser.jpg

Hi Tim.
I took a pic of the title for the vin. I have not checked the door jamb yet -- it was still in a trailer so could not get at it. There is a product number on the title 41384151701. My concern is that this guy has not been truthful with me for the past 3 years while I thought he was painting my truck. Now he wants to exchange this 52 for mine to avoid court on this coming Tuesday. I don't mind the switch but I don't want to be swindled either.

Hello, Kevin,

41384151701 is not recognizable as a GM/Chevrolet ID code.

You might/will have trouble registering that truck.

Why can't the truck be backed out of the trailer to check the numbers? I'd insist on it. If otherwise and given your concerns about his truthfulness, then decline the offer. Frankly, given the guys apparent track record I'd not do any business with him.

The "Product number" came off the title. I am going over this am and having him back it out and will be taking a look as you mentioned. Thanks.... I will get back to you all and let you know what I find

This is looking more-and-more like a problem, Kevin

Unless that "product number" is on the title, and is on the door plate, and is on an Illinois registration (recent/valid registration would be nice), good luck with the DMV.

It would not get registered in NC & NY (the only two places I have dealt with).

Kevin, you got any friends in Law Enforcement? If so ask them to meet you at this guy’s place. They can run the numbers to see if it’s stolen or altered. I wouldn’t trust this guy one bit. Be cautious be safe.🛠

I went and took a closer look. The engine number matches the vin number on the title, What is on the title as a product number does not match the serial number that is on the plate on the door jamb. According to the serial number (3kpk-21742) it's a 52 1/2 ton Chevrolet. Should the product number on the title match the serial number on the plate? This is a nice looking 5 window with the back 2 corner windows (I'm not sure if 5 window means the windshield is split in 2 or does not care about the windshield but it's the back 2 corner windows).

I would not buy this truck. Jeffrey

I agree with 32vid

The title/registration "number"/code/ID should match either the engine ID or the vehicle-tag ID.

If the title is in the guys name it may not be a problem. However, if he has never had the truck he wants to trade you in his name then ruuunnnnn....or, if he will go get it titled in his name and then sign that title over to you its a whole different ball game. Again, is the title currently in HIS name?

....and since you've been given the run around for so long, whats wrong with going to court. I'm not a judge but its seems the guy will have to pay up/back or finish your truck by a dead line. Mmmm, maybe some other option is the answer?

It was VERY common pre 1955 for State's to use the engine serial number for identification. If you have a paper title and an engine that match, you're good to go! The product number is a DMV number (for in-house use/info only) and will not be found anywhere on the truck.

If you are worried about the product number call your DMV and ask them what it is...

Mike B

I was thinking the same thing as Mike. Kevin, please clear this up for all of us.

1. Is this an Illinois Title?
2. Does the title have a place for a vehicle Identification number?
3. Is there a number in that spot
4. Does that number match anything on the truck?
5. Is the product number a separate number from the vehicle identification number?
6. Why in the heck did you bring up the "product number"? It has nothing to do with anything.
7. You said the VIN on title matches the motor number. That's good. May be the original motor. Motor numbers were used, as Mike says. Make sure motor number looks like an original stamp in the original spot. This here could be what you call your "matching numbers" truck!!!!
8. Does the title say it's a 1952 Chevrolet (1/2T truck)?
9. It is probably in your best interest to really consider this instead of a long law suit that may or may not yield a judgment that you can't collect on until you pay a collector....and he still may be allowed to take another year to finish it if the judge says so. Maybe he is actually making a sincere effort to settle. We don't know the story or his side of the three year saga. I take 3 years to finish a truck of mine I said would take 6 months, I don't call it a lie.
10. When you make the deal, go to the DMV with him. They will notarize his signature and will stop the transfer if anything is sketchy.
11. Be sure it's not all bondo'ed or otherwise pieced together. Concentrate on inspecting the truck itself. Thoroughly.
12. Do that deal before you give him your title. Make sure somehow he CAN NOT come back at you with a bill for your truck.
13. KBA is a legit 1952 motor number prefix: 3100 Chevy 1/2T Truck with 216 motor. As Tim tclederman has pointed out. You see that the SerNo is legit. It all looks good to me. 100%.
14. How much have you paid him already and how much is your truck worth in it's present state? In other words, would taking it home be better financially?
15. When at the DMV do not mention that the VIN is the motor number. Don't lie about anything, just don't talk. If you want the truck.
The problem later will be if the motor is changed out. DO NOT remove the motor until a Law enforcement officer or DMV agent verifies it and makes a change to the title by using the VIN plate number (serial no.). Then swap the motor if you must. That's later.

It has a motor number up into 700,000 1952 216 motors? (I.E. KBA729567). I assume this is a number from an engine plant that built ALL the motors for ALL the assembly plants? Hellofalotamotors.

The 5 window and 3 window counts the windshield as 0. Same as in coupes. The split went away in 54. The "corner windows" were an option and considered a deluxe feature/deluxe cab. Many consider 5W more "valuable" than 3W. May or may not be true. In coupes, 3W is more valuable.

Bartamos

I will answer the best I can:

1. Is this an Illinois Title? No Wisconsin
2. Does the title have a place for a vehicle Identification number? Yes
3. Is there a number in that spot Yes, the engine number
4. Does that number match anything on the truck? Yes the engine
5. Is the product number a separate number from the vehicle identification number? Yes it is
6. Why in the heck did you bring up the "product number"? It has nothing to do with anything. Was not sure if it's important
7. You said the VIN on title matches the motor number. That's good. May be the original motor. Motor numbers were used, as Mike says. Make sure motor number looks like an original stamp in the original spot. This here could be what you call your "matching numbers" truck!!!! wink Yes it looks original and in the right spot
8. Does the title say it's a 1952 Chevrolet (1/2T truck)? Under body style it says "unknown"
9. It is probably in your best interest to really consider this instead of a long law suit that may or may not yield a judgment that you can't collect on until you pay a collector....and he still may be allowed to take another year to finish it if the judge says so. Maybe he is actually making a sincere effort to settle. We don't know the story or his side of the three year saga. I take 3 years to finish a truck of mine I said would take 6 months, I don't call it a lie. Yes it would. I have enough stress in my life with work, 50+ years type 1 diabetic, 2 transplants, etc.
10. When you make the deal, go to the DMV with him. They will notarize his signature and will stop the transfer if anything is sketchy. This is tricky, he did not transfer the name into his. He buys and sells a few a year and keeps under the radar for having to get a license to do more.
11. Be sure it's not all bondo'ed or otherwise pieced together. Concentrate on inspecting the truck itself. Thoroughly. So far I'm happy with this
12. Do that deal before you give him your title. Make sure somehow he CAN NOT come back at you with a bill for your truck. At the moment I have both titles
13. KBA is a legit 1952 motor number prefix: 3100 Chevy 1/2T Truck with 216 motor. As Tim tclederman has pointed out. You see that the SerNo is legit. It all looks good to me. 100%.
14. How much have you paid him already and how much is your truck worth in it's present state? In other words, would taking it home be better financially? 5K Absolutely --

I do plan to call he Wisconsin DMV tomorrow and let them know what I have and see if for them it was what was done in the early '50's. Also see if they would check to see if it's reported lost or stolen

Thank you Kevin for being patient with Bartamos and others. Just trying to keep you from getting burnt on this deal. What he is doing with the titles is 100% illegal in every State that requires a title. He is avoiding paying transfer fees and/or taxes. If he can get the title with the POs name notarized then it will go through the registration process. Is it fraud, yes; is it done all the time, absolutely. Sounds like the title and truck go together and the important numbers match. We here at Stovebolt.com cannot advise you to commit an illegal act, so use your best judgement. Good luck.🛠

Given some of the uncertainty in dealing with this guy, I suggest belt and suspenders in verifying the numbers. The 216 engines I have are a bit older than the one here and there may have been a later change. But, the stamped number on the boss adjacent to the distributor is duplicated ,stamped, also on the engine block under the push rod cover near the front and about center.

I had to lookup that advice/adage, 46Sparky. Nice one.

. . belt and suspenders (plural belts and suspenders)

Redundant systems, affording mutual backup in the event of one failing.

It does sound fairly OK. Of course, your judgment is what matters.
One more thing, some states like Illinios, may have special requirements for registering a vehicle from out of state. If so, it may not pass some sort of inspection. In AZ they don't treat them any different and they don't collect back fees for other states. We don't even take the truck in. Hope you get it and have fun with it. Stay well. You have good knowledge of what you are doing. When you ask for help here, you get it. Don't think there is anything illegal on your part. You are doing your due diligence by trying to call Wisconsin. They may not be allowed to give out info on the phone. I would not worry anymore about it. You don't have anything now and you will have something then. If the motor stamp is on an original looking surface, done deal. Send us a photo when you get all done. All the best, Bartamos.

P.S. Here, we have 15 days, from sale, to register a vehicle. But as Martin says many people don't fill in the sale date. So when it's finally transferred, you fill in the sale date and take it to DMV. If it's not filled in, have him fill it in, then take it in. I've had to pay penalties because it was already filled in long ago. But that was on a vehicle from in state and was only $100.

All ---
Thank you for all the information. I just got off the phone with the Wisconsin DMV and the gal did not miss a beat when I asked the question. She came back with "Prior to 1954 they used the engine number on the title". With that said I believe I am ok. Again thanks for all the input.

Good news Kevin. The dark days are behind you. It’s time to drive!🛠