Took the truck out for a freeway test (recent build), probably 15 miles at 55-60. Just normal driving, not overworking the brakes. Everything seemed to be fine but when I felt the drums they were hot to the touch. I worked the honey-do list to give them a chance to cool. I figured I had them adjusted too tight. But the drums came off easily with just slightly drag. So now I'm thinking they are adjusted OK. Here is what the system is: CPP dual master, Ferd 9", self adjusting brakes, 10# residual valve. What do you think the issue would be?
Drums getting warm isn't a problem- - - - -they stop the vehicle by converting kinetic energy in the vehicle to heat energy. If the vehicle isn't hard to push when the transmission is in neutral after a few miles on the road, or the brakes don't pop, crackle, or smell hot after a run, you probably don't have anything to worry about. If a wet finger sizzles when you touch a drum, then you need to start finding what's dragging and why. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Didn't test with a wet finger but I can't hold my hand on it. That seems to hot to me since I didn't do any hard stops. But then can't say I've ever checked them that way before. If you don't think it is anything to worry about then I'll just keep an eye, or wet finger, on it.
I've heard from some pretty reliable sources in the automotive industry that a stop from 60 MPH with an average-sized vehicle generates enough heat to melt a good sized cast iron skillet. The drums don't melt because they're constantly dissipating the heat to the air surrounding them. Brake "fade" happens when a drum absorbs more heat than it can dissipate. There's lots of pedal height, but no stopping effect, no matter how hard you push the pedal. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I'm with Jerry. I don't think you have a problem. Years ago, I was on a small plane that had an interesting 2-piece disk brake assembly (outer part of the disk was splined to the hub) that I noticed on landing, so when I got off I grabbed it to see if the outer part of the disk was loose. Big mistake. I flattened the fingerprints on a thumb and index finger with the heat. Of course, I let go real quick. So my take is even if it sears the prints of your finger, it's probably OK.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
...if it is a new set of shoes they may not be "fitted" or worn to fit the drum very well. I had the same problem at first with my panel. Seems that one small spot was constantly rubbing as I adjusted them up pretty snug. After a few miles and quite a few stops the drums/wheels are a lot cooler and once, when I pulled a drum to check the axle seal I could tell the brake shoes were now completely touching.....just a thought.
That could be some of it Alvin. These are new and I have done some 'fitting' but I can see where the drivers side needs some work to get better contact. I'm going to make a longer run tomorrow and see if there is any dragging. Hope I don't leave any fingerprints. HR and Kevin are probably right. I'll know soon.
It is possible the master cyl. rod to the booster is adjusted to long, not letting the piston in the master cyl. return all the way. Your road test tomorrow should determine if that is the case.
They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing. 1972 Chevy c10 Cheyenne Super In the Gallery Forum
I'm not using a booster Wrenchbender. Thanks for the suggestion though. I went for another test today and I did the test of putting it in neutral and giving it a push. It was easy, just like when cold. So, I'm checking this off as done. Thanks all for your help.
There are a couple of things that have the potential to really help braking effectiveness. One is to find and use asbestos lined shoes. They have not been in auto parts stores since about 1980 but they're out there in abundance and really make a difference over "organic" friction. The other is to "arc grind" the linings as explained in this article: http://www.adlersantiqueautos.com/articles/drumbrakes.html
Good luck getting any shop well-equipped enough to have a shoe grinder to risk enough EPA fines for spreading hazmat dust to bankrupt them. Most of those machines hit the scrap heap close to 50 years ago. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
"Ray, are you suggesting that the O P find and use toxic brakes shoes?"
Carl, when I built my '32 Ford roadster street rod braking was very poor with "organic" friction on the GM "Metric" caliper-Aspen/Volare rotor front and Ford 10" drum rear brakes. Asbestos friction was readily available on ebay from private parties. The asbestos difference was dramatic, almost like adding a booster. Like R12 refrigerant, asbestos friction materials are perfectly legal to own and sell privately, just not legal to manufacture. A quick check of ebay will show you how much asbestos friction is still out there and how inexpensive it is.
The OP may not know that and may find the information useful. Asbestos has the double whammy of a high friction coefficient and very minimal disc/drum wear. That works for me. If others don't want to use it, there are other options.
There is no end to what is considered toxic. I know that from my work as a geologist. Now copper in brake friction materials is blamed for lots of things. The same will happen to whatever replaces copper.
"Or are you suggesting he take his shoes to a non-existent shoe grinder?"
I had no trouble finding a place to get my shoes arc ground. I worked in an auto parts store as a kid and know how to do that job myself. If necessary I would have made my own arc grinder. It's a very simple device. My wood shaper could easily be adapted to do it.
If I'm not mistaken this is an information sharing forum and I make no apology for sharing information. It's not as if I were advocating something that would harm anyone.
Yep, Carl- - - - -that's exactly what he's doing. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Here's a video showing the operation of an arc grinding machine of the type I operated in the parts store as a kid and it sounds like this one is for sale as well:
There are several of them on ebay right now including this one that seems to be just like the one in the video:
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Maybe this is what you are experiencing, but less severe.
I had a huge problem when I first started driving my 65 C10. It had a new single reservoir brake MC and no booster. The brakes would get hot and would drag. I could release pressure from the rear lines through the bleed screw and all would be fine for another 10 minutes. Then the brakes would get super tight again.
I had the MC pushrod adjusted a wee bit too tight and the MC plunger was not quite getting back to the home position. So every time I would brake, the pressure in the lines would build slightly. After 10 or more braking events, they would be super tight and of course by then the shoes were dragging on the drums constantly.
Letting the truck sit 10 or 15 minutes was enough time to let the pressure disappear without touching the bleed screw. I was puzzled for a few days, but I will never forget what I learned.
If I'm not mistaken this is an information sharing forum and I make no apology for sharing information. It's not as if I were advocating something that would harm anyone.
If there is one thing to be learned from an "information sharing forum", it is to take in All of the information, then make a personal determination as to how to proceed. I have shared my "information" and I stand by it. DennisM now has some information to sort through to make a reasonable determination as to which direction to proceed. Carl
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
"If there is one thing to be learned from an "information sharing forum", it is to take in All of the information, then make a personal determination as to how to proceed. I have shared my "information" and I stand by it."
Carl,
Thanks for that accurate summary of this topic. Taking input from a variety of sources can't help but broaden the range of potential solutions to a problem. No one person can know everything.
I had the same problem, fronts getting too hot (both when the fronts were drum or disc). I had CCP master cylinder also in both set-ups (different master cylinder for each. When a drove a few miles, the truck would not "roll backwards" on an incline when in neutral. When I examined the shoes you could see they were overheated.
In my case,I found the master cylinder push rod needed adustement. It didn't take much of an adjustment to remedy the problem. don
