The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 keeps dying on me!

Ok so I have a 1954 3600 chevy truck that I did a complete cab off restoration on. I finished it about 3 years ago and everything has been fine, until last night. I took it out for a ride and it died on me. About a block before it died it stumbled and then it just quit and wouldn't start. I thought maybe the fuel gauge was off and I ran out of gas, so I dumped 8 gallons in it and that filled it completely. So after killing the battery once and jumping it, I got it to fire. On the way home it died 4 more times but fired pretty much right back up. The last time it died I was in my drive way. I could see fuel in the fuel pump and I pulled the top of the carb off to check for fuel, the carb was full. So I thought it was fuel related but now I'm thinking electrical. The coil is like the only ignition part I never replaced in it, so I'm thinking that might be it. Any other ideas from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

I would guess coil as well, but check to see if your points and condensor are OK. I would start at the plugs, if you have good spark, it is something else. If you do not, start working backwards to the coil.

Make sure your points are gapped, and replace your condenser. I have also had similar and it was coil wire, but only once in a lot of years. What you described is usually condenser.

Check all your ignition system wires. It could be something as simple as a loose wire. I would also guess the condenser.

I took me 10 years to finish this truck, from start to finish. When I rebuilt the motor, probably right around 10 years ago, I replaced the points and condenser. I'm going to try the coil, plug wires and condenser first because I agree with you guys. I'll buy a set of points to have on hand just in case.

Try to find American made. NAPA might have quality Delco ign parts. You might have to go through 3-4 China condensers before you get a good one.🛠

Good point, also have any of you guys ever went to a petronix system. I'm thinking about that instead if points. I've heard nothing but good about, what do you guys think.

I have had good luck with Pertronix, there are two camps on that issue but now you need to solve whatever is going on. Pertonix or points, you should have spares in the glove box. Best of luck

Check the spark at spark plugs, as said. If you have good spark, see if gas squirts in throat of carb. Fix it BEFORE switching to Pertronix. Nothing wrong with a points ignition.
Sounds like carb is filling up during cranking, then it starts, but pump or blockage or gas cap vent or carb internals can't keep up with load/driving.
The bowl will last less than 30 seconds. A pump flow test would be appropriate.
Think of anything else you may have done and forgot.

I really don't think it's fuel. The truck will run for a period of time then die. The last time it died, I checked the bowl in the carb and it was completely full. I don't believe it's starving for fuel

To be clear, when it dies it will fire back up almost instantly. Then it will run for a few miles with no issue, then it's like someone turns the key off. There's no spitting or sputtering likes it's starving for fuel, it just dies.

1. Check spark
2. Check squirt or pour gas down throat
3. Check pump flow at pump outlet
4. Check for vacuum leaks. Hoses.
5. Take off gas cap!!!!!
6. Check carb bolts for tight


If you don't want to check that stuff, put on new points, condenser and buy a coil. It only takes minutes to try. As you know, it is getting gas and spark for awhile. Timing is OK. I guess either the coil/condenser is cooling off or the bowl is filling/Debris is resettling somewhere. Then it restarts.

I'm not completely ruling out a fuel problem lol. To me it just seems more on the electrical side. I'm going to clean out the fuel filter and probably the pump itself. I like you said though, those electrical parts are cheap and my local parts store has them.

To do a fuel pump test, disconnect the line at carb inlet. Run that line into a plastic bottle. Take off center wire on distributor tower. Crank motor and see if pump pulses a good flow into bottle and starts to fill it up pretty fast. If it's a slow flow or weak squirts, or irregular squirts, that's your problem. But you need to check spark also. After all wires are back on distributor, Take out one spark plug. Connect it's wire to it. Place it so that threads touch a good clean metal part of motor. Not too near it's plug hole. Have someone crank motor and see if it snaps a good lightning spark. Do this in as dark a spot as possible, not in the sunlight. Super thin spark or yellow spark is a weak spark. Not good.

One time my 50 started to buck and shut down on the freeway.

Found out it was a bad gas cap

Not sure what your issue is but one thing to check is the gas cap

Ok so as a update. I just checked my point gap when it's opened all the way. I only have .005 to .004 opening, the book calls for .016 and when you replace them initial set up is .019. The piece that follows the distributor lobe is completely worn out causing a really tight gap

That'll do it!👍🏻

Had that happen to me. It was a real head scratcher. Once that plastic is worn off, all of the geometry goes away and you cant set the point gap correctly. I couldn't find any of my 6 pairs of reading glasses, so I couldn't see what was going on.

Nice lol😂😂

Ok so the new points, condenser, coil and plugs are in. Checked the timing, it's spot on. It's been running for 15 minutes with no issues, it would have died before now last night. Time for a drive....

Well I put 20 miles on it and it ran for about an hour, didn't die once. I did have to adjust the air/fuel mixture a little to smooth out the idle, I'm assuming because of the difference in the points. So thanks for the help guys, I'm calling it good for now!!

There is supposed to be a dab of grease on the rotor for lube, if in a dusty environment, the rubbing tab can wear down causing same results.

Ed

The new points came with the lube.

Thanks for update

Well unfortunately my problem has returned. I drove it 7 miles to the store last night and it wouldn't run right after I came out of the store. At this point I'm thinking fuel. I would have to hold the gas to the floor to get it to fire and then it would die shortly after that. I took the line off between the pump and carburetor, it was clean. Gas pours out of the outlet side of the pump with the line off. I'm going to clean up the pump and check it's pressure. Also I'm going to give the carburetor a good rebuilding. I did check the gas cap, it ran the same without it on.

Gas "pours out"? Does that mean you did a pump test into a bottle while cranking?..or it poured out as it released pressure from undoing it? The second choice means nothing. There is nothing to "clean up" about the pump. Do the flow test. Not a pressure test.

Sounds like it ran for a day or two, then after 7 miles it would not start. When did you try the cap off? You said "ran the same"???
As soon as it would not start after 7 miles was the exact time to check carb squirt down throat. The exact time to pour some gas down throat. The exact time to check spark. Good time to take cap off. You did not say how you got home? You took line of at carb and "it was clean". What was clean? The gas? The fitting?

If you got new points and gapped them and it ran for 27 miles. That's your possible clue. You did something that caused it to run good. Points, condenser, coil, rotor, cap and wiring to all that. Recheck all that. RECHECK THE POINTS. Condensers can be bad right out of the box. Check that choke is not closing. It's also possible that there are more than one thing happening. What else may you have done that day that you forgot you found and fixed?
We are anxious to help. Re read all the posts and reconnoiter.

WE MUST SEPARATE THE ISSUES of fuel or spark. WE MUST figure out which it is. Can't go back and forth. Use the exact time it won't start to find the problem. If it won't start, check to see if the throttle will squirt gas out the holes down in throat of carb. If no gas, pour a little gas down carb right away. If it fires for a few RPM's, you got it solved. FUEL.
If it does squirt fuel out the holes, check spark right away. Something it happening intermittently and that is very hard to catch. Leave air cleaner off on test drive so you can see quickly.
Have you determined that it is not flooding? Sometimes holding pedal to floor, like you said, is a remedy for flooding

as far as pertronix, I have had my truck 35 years,and the only time it didn't make it home was when I "UPGRADED" my ignition to pertronix. I had one fail in my mustang, and one fail in the truck. I could work on points for the rest of my life and still not equal the misery I went through on that windy rainy day switching it all back to points so I could get home. I still have the unit Pertronix sent me as a replacement, But I see no reason to install it. I have a whole case of NOS points I got on ebay.

The Pertronix remark/rebuke is gratuitous at this point. This problem is elsewhere.

However, this thread was taken there: I have had no problem with Pertronix (so far, on 6v or 12v on 235 and 261 high-pressure engines), after I make sure that the distributor does not have an intermittent ground - I ran a ground-wire from a distributor-cap clamp-screw to one of the bolts that holds the coil-clamp to the head.

Nonetheless, since so many people seem to have problems with a Pertronix unit. I keep a spare distributor in my truck, with a set of properly adjusted points. Like many insurance policies, it has never been used. Guess I have just been lucky.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I have had more problems with bad new points/condensers than I have had with Pertronix units. Nonetheless, I do not recommend an electronic ignition of any sort on a non-racing 216/235/261, unless you simply want to try something unconventional (that will most likely no measurable increase in performance or reliability). I carry a spare set-up distributor, either way.

It is a fact:
1. Some folks have trouble with pertronix. This is actually Pertronix's fault. They may have a good product but when you sell a DIY kit, this is what you get. Users who don't install correctly. They may also have Chinese reliability problem components. It is, however, a nostalgic "HEI" alternative. I would like to know the return rate on Pertronix and exactly what component fails and why it fails.
But that is their problem. The internet is full of bad stories. They need to fix that negative vibe with analysis.

2. I do not believe, due to dying demand, that there are any U.S.A. made points. The "rules" enacted by our government are a joke. Only some percentage needs to be U.S.A. made or some of it assembled in U.S.A. This could include the box or Puerto Rico made or any U.S. possession. The quality control is gone. Country of Origin is a misnomer. We must endure buying them and tweaking them as far as contact pad alignment and surface of pad. We must find a place that we can buy three, look at them, pick the best and return the other two.

3. The best idea was Langdon. They may be done. Website says they are on vacation. The Stovebolt distributor is "out of stock". A note says "no time to answer your questions, just order and we may call you". I believe I've seen a story about Mr. Langdon withdrawing from activity. Too bad. Can't count on that source anymore. In my opinion.

4. You can not know that NAPA points, which were Echlin, now Standard, are U.S.A. made. Nor Delco, nor anyone else. Possibly old Ebay NOS points that say Delco-Remy are U.S.A. I don't know if a NOS condenser will loose viability or get electrostatic discharge damage in 15 years of storage somewhere, but new condensers are crap* now also. ( * hate to throw in a street term into such a wonderful dissertation, but it fits). Members will survive and keep the 6's running. It will, however, become more of a PITA.

5. Best answer: Install a V8 with GM HEI and go to town with those dual pipes blazin'.

HEI work well on GMC 6's.

Ed

Sorry it took so long to reply, so here we go. So when it kept dying at the store I didn't want to try and drive it home. I went and got my truck and trailer to haul it home. The stupid thing fired right up and I drove it one the trailer. When I got home it fired right up and I drove it off and let it run for 10 minutes, it never died once. I decided to do a complete tune up since it hasn't been done in 12 years. I had already replaced the coil, condenser, plugs and points. So I put a new cap, rotor, plug wires and did a complete overhaul on the carburetor. I also have a new fuel pump coming too. I found almost all the parts America made, I HATE using foreign. I also blew out all the fuel lines and cleaned out the vacuum line going to the vacuum advance. The fuel comes out of the tank so fast that I almost didn't get it stopped in time before it filled up a quart jar. I took the fuel pump off and checked it over, I did find one of the screws that holds it together striped out. I assumed that could be bad if it was sucking in air if it wasn't sealed right. The distributor cap had a crack all the way around one of the wire terminals, it actually came off completely with little effort.......not good. I rechecked the points, there're still set at .019 just like the book said to do. I will let y'all know when I get the pump how it runs after replacing everything lol.

Very, Very good news. You found some really probable causes. My commendation to you. I'm thinking this one is solved. Great effort.

Yes Buick V6 Dizzy conversion to GMC V6. Nice. Stayed with points on mine.

I was talking about inline 6's.

Ed

Just an FYI. I saw the note on the Langdon Stovebolt site and what it says is "Due to the heavy workload and reduced manpower, we are unable to quickly answer many of your E-Mails and phone calls.Please place an order from our on-line catalog for anything related to your project. We will call you to discuss and complete your order as appropriate, for your needs.
Credit card will only be taken, after we discuss and finalize your order.Thank You."

I ordered their HEI unit a couple of weeks ago and got a call back the next day. The unit was delivered in a couple of days. I ordered their 32/36 carburetor after that - same response and it just arrived. So they're still a good source.