The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay New wiring with old stomp starter

Hi Guys,

Boy am I confused! A few facts, then the questions: the truck is a 1953 Chevy 3100 that will be getting a 1960 235 installed. I'm currently installing a new Speedway Motors wire harness that is set up for a modern ignition switch and a solenoid based starter. I also am installing a new Chev's of the 40's ignition switch with 5 terminals (ign, bat, sol,, acc and gdn). The engine has been converted to an alternator. New gauges will be installed with a voltmeter, the old gauges and ammeter are gone. Finally, the starter is a foot stomp starter.

My confusion: All of the new equipment is really geared towards a modern, solenoid based starter. I really like the idea of the stomp starter and want to keep it if possible. The instructions that came with the wire harness are pretty clear, but they relate to the solenoid.

My question: Can I keep the foot stomp starter with the new wire harness, ignition switch, alternator and if so, how do I wire up the ignition switch?

Sorry for the rambling nature of my post...was hard to capture my thoughts in a concise way. As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Mike, yes, you can use the stomp starter with the new harness, etc. If your ignition switch has off/acc/run/start positions, you'll be OK. You really just need off/run. You simply won't use the solenoid wires.

In the run position, you will have a circuit connected from the battery to the ballast resistor to the coil. This will allow your engine to start and run using the stomp starter. This makes the assumption that you are using a stock points ignition system. If you use an HEI, you can bypass the ballast resistor because you don't need the voltage to the coil/points to be reduced from 12 to 6 volts.

You should have a small terminal on the side of the stomp starter switch. Run a wire from this side terminal to the + side of the coil. This allows 12 volts to go to the coil during starting when you stomp on the starter switch, but the contacts inside the side terminal disconnect when you take your foot off the stomp starter. The ballast resistor takes over once your foot is off the stomp pedal and allows the coil to operate on 6 volts to keep from burning out the points. The extra voltage from the side terminal of the stomp starter is to create a hotter spark to help with starting.

An alternator is no problem. Wiring will depend on if it is a one wire or a three wire alternator. If you are running a one wire, you simply run a wire from the battery to the alternator. You're done. If you are running a three wire, you run one wire from the battery to the alternator, another to your main junction lug to allow for remote voltage sensing for the voltage regulator, and the third is what is called an exciter wire. It tickles the alternator to function when the ignition is switched on. (One wire alternators are self-exciting, but they will only produce power once they achieve a certain RPM while a three wire produces power once it is tickled when the ignition key is switched on.) The exciter wire needs to be run to a switched ignition wire. The feed side of the ballast resistor is a good connection point. You will need to wire a diode into the connection at the alternator or else the engine will not turn off when you turn the key to off. You can buy one at Radio Shack and solder it into the harness yourself or you can buy a pigtail that has one wired into it that plugs into the alternator for about $10 on ebay. You can sometimes skip the diode if you run an idiot light off the exciter wire because the idiot light will create enough resistance to allow the engine to turn off when the key is turned off, but the diode is a bullet proof way to make sure, idiot light or not.

Sounds complicated, but very easy once you sketch it out.

Matt

Matt, thanks for the reply and information! One further issue is that my old starter is the type without the side terminal. It only has the top terminal. I am planning to upgrade the ignition to one of the ignitor electronic setups. I don't want to put a ballast resistor onto the truck and upgrading to the electronic ignition seemed like the simplest way to avoid the resistor and hopefully get a better spark, too.

So, after all of that, I'm wondering if ditching the stomp starter and going with a solenoid based starter is really the best way to go? The replacement engine (from the 1960 Impala) has a working solenoid based starter on it. That engine was mated to a cast iron powerglide so it has a flex plate, not a flywheel. That would have to be replaced or I could replace the ring gear on the flywheel that's in the truck now to get the right number of gear teeth and put that onto the 1960 235.

OBTW, when I run the 1960 235 on the test stand, I do not run a ballast resistor. I don't remember for sure, but I think that when I got the engine from the junkyard I replaced the coil with an internally resisted coil. I did replace the coil, but not sure if it is internally resisted or not.... Starts and runs just fine, but its not the same load as driving it.

I guess at this point I'm open to suggestions.

I've got a coil with internal resistor. No idea how it works but it works on my '60 motor.

Dennis

The internal resistor coil will work just fine- - - - -until you try to start the engine in extremely cold or hot conditions. Then you'd better be wearing a pair of comfortable walking shoes and have plenty of time to get where you need to go.
Jerry

Jerry,

If I switch to the 12v electronic ignition could I ditch the internally resisted coil and use a coil that is not resisted? If so, would that alleviate the cold/hot starting issue?

mike, I run an HEI system in my '57 3600 with a 235. I used Deve's guide to build it myself. I am very happy with it and am especially comfortable that it uses a standard GM 4 pin module so that it it ever acts up, I can get a replacement for about $20 at any FLAPS. Below is a link. Deve gives great instructions for guys like me that want to do all the fabricating themselves. It is very easy to build. I have built two additional of his HEI systems for a couple 261's that have been built for projects that are currently under construction.

http://devestechnet.com/Home/HEIgnition

The system uses a 'real' 12 volt coil, not one labeled as 12 volt that is really 6 as are most used on 12 volt systems with points. I use an MSD Blaster 2 coil.

I share the above for a couple reasons. One, you are correct that you will not need a ballast resistor. In fact, you don't want one. For my installation, I bridged the terminals with a jumper so it is still on the firewall but is bypassed with the jumper.

Second, since the coil is a true 12 volt coil that is getting 12 volts from the ignition switch, you don't need the side terminal connection from the stomp starter switch to the coil. I disconnected that wire as part of my installation. So your stomp starter with a switch that does not have the side connection will work just fine.

I use a ballast resistor on my run stand, but that is probably a judgment call. Engines run for such short periods of time on the run stands that there is probably very little risk of burning out points if you skip the ballast resistor. I just don't take the chance...and I want to test an engine in a 'live' environment. Probably an unnecessary and over-cautious step on my part.

Matt

Jerry,
What's the "work around" if you don't have the side terminal on the foot stomp starter ?

Change the switch. Rock Auto has the Delco switch with the side terminal for about $18.00. I did a search for a 1960 Chevy 3100 with a 235 "Starter solenoid" (not "switch") It's about halfway down the page.

It's a Delco D928A

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1960,c10+pickup,3.8l+235cid+l6,1489472,electrical,starter+solenoid,4188

If you're running some sort of cobbled-up home brew HEI system, good luck if you break down on a weekend in Podunk Junction USA.
Jerry

I've been to Podunk Junction! I met Uncle Joe Carson, Ms Kate, Billy Joe, Betty Joe, Bobby Joe, and "Jerry" the crotchety mechanic who lived down the road a fair piece...

Jerry,
Thanks, that would solve it.