The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Garage - What shall I build?

I own a home with a 2 car garage and I want to build another garage in the back yard. I'm looking for advice. There . . . I left that door WIDE open.
Here is what I already know.
The extra garage was my wife's idea and I have her blessing.
Bigger is better.
A big garage is never BIG enough.
I refuse to go bigger than 22'X26' or it will swallow up my back yard.

I've priced metal garages. The kind where they show up and build it all the same day. That's what I'm leaning towards. They're affordable. I think spray on insulation would be the best way to seal it up. I don't have $50K to spend on brick and mortar.

I will have the land graded and leveled and then cement poured. Then the building can go up 4-6 weeks later.

I'm thinking 26' deep to allow room for my tool boxes along the back wall and a compressor (which might go outside). Nine foot walls, a side entrance door and 2 windows. I'd pour extra cement in front of the garage so I'd have cement beneath me if I wanted to work under the truck outside in front of the garage or needed to roll an engine hoist around etc.

OK, please add some ideas. Thanks.

Lugnutz,

Whose metal "pre-fab" garages are you looking at (manufacturers' names).

Metal Garages Direct seem to have good quality, good prices, and good reputation. I do not know if they charge extra for delivery/installation in SC.

Funny, I got a quote from Metal Garages Direct today. Another company gave me the EXACT same price . . . Apples for apples.

It don't matter WHAT you build. In about a year, maybe 2, it'll be "too small".
Been there done that.

Our first house had a 26 long by 28 wide detached garage and I didn't know "what to do with all that room".

Wasn't long before it was - you guessed it - "too small".

Just sayin.

Old 'Burb Lover posts the truth.

That is why I am thinking of adding an additional garage here in NC - the garage on my new property here is only 40'x32'. Not big enough to match what my garage-space had grown-to in NY.

Just make sure some company don't sucker you in and use thin sub-par material. They are out there you know......Jay, I know you will do your homework and get a good one. Just had to "warn you".

....one of my best friends had a Hoover building put up and I must admit I was impressed with what he got for the dollar about 3years ago. Did you check them out?

Ok. I'll check out Hoover.

Mine is 40X50 and packed full.
Always have to fire up and move the ladder truck, just to do anything at all.

Go as big as you can.

Don

Allow me to simplify this a little. What details other than size should I think about? What size garage can accommodate a 4 post lift? A 4 post lift would really help with storage and work environment.

Wire it for "sound!" What I mean by that is put in more electrical than you think you'll need. Wire for communication. Plumb for air. Heat. Cooling. Put in more lighting than you think you'll need. Including outside lighting. An office space for the paper. A machine area. A parts area. A storage area. A lube area. A fabrication area.

Wow. It already sounds like it's getting small.

Just kinda throwing out the wish list. Then again, this is where I work:

http://www.bunchobikes.com/lift1.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/lift2.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/lift3.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/lift4.jpg

The last two pics are my wash bay. 6 doors on each side of the building, drive through bays.

Oooh! I was just thinking today how nice it would be to have heaters in the slab like one of our other shops.

Nice workplace.

Since you've already settled on 22x26 no need to talk about that. My 30x40 with 10' walls is way small. I do have a 9k Rotary 2 post lift and it just fits my 10' wall shop with the lift in the center at one end, it has about 8" clearance.

My suggestions (not gonna talk about bigger is better

1. 10' walls min., 12' of even 14' is better since you can build some storage up high and a lift will work better.

2. Be sure to spec 24ga roof metal, sides as well if the budget allows.

3. Outside on the compressor, I'm moving my air compressor outside as soon as I build a 20x40 canopy on the front of the shop (and pore the concrete slab).

4. With the size shop you're thinking I'd consider going with swing or sliding doors to avoid overhead door conflicts with the lift when a vehicle is on it.

5.AC, at 22x26 a big window AC will cool it, just be sure to wire with max load in mind and plenty of outlets.

6. If you pore a slab outside, may as well cover it. If it's on a south wall the cover will keep the summer sun off the doors and you can keep the doors open in a light rain, nice at times.

7. I'd spec 5k concrete and have it power troweled.

You didn't ask for lift opinions but...I started out thinking I wanted a 4 post. After much consideration and lots of advise I went with a quality 2 post. One of my better decisions. Much easier to work under it and I can store a car on it if needed.

Good Luck!

For heat, use in-slab tubing. A warm slab is like a cozy bed in the winter (well a little harder) but you can lay there without a creeper and be warm. I have a some buddies with shops about 40'x40'x16' high and they all have heated slabs. Nice even in the dead of winter up here in Alaska.

Great tips. I think 10 foot walls are doable. That is if it will allow a lift. Yes, I'd prefer a 2 post lift. In floor heating sounds good but here in SC I doubt I'd spend the money for it. I will need good lighting and electrical. Can I get the lighting and electrical installed after the building is up?

If you decide to do a stick build, you can buy attic trusses for about the same price as non-attic ones. Dropping plywood into the attic trusses gives you lots of storage for very little extra money...and future expansion room.

If you have attic trusses in place, you have lots of inexpensive future expansion room to go up, not out, even if you don't finish the attic at first. Access can be through a hatch, pull down ladder/stairs, or more elaborate with stairs. Depends on future expansion plans and money. The last custom garage that we had built in NC had back stairs to get to the attic. Never finished the upstairs before moving, but the plan was to make it my wood shop.

The disadvantage of an attic is that you give up the height needed if you want to install a lift.

Matt

#1. Before you start anything check with your local Planning & Zoning Office. See if what you want to do is even possible. They will TELL you how big/tall you can go. There will be setbacks from property lines to consider. They will require engineered plans to be filed and you will pay for a building permit. No sense in building something and then Big Brother telling you to tear it down. Don't try to sneek it in, your neighbors will rat you out.

#2. Bigger is always better.

Yes, I have done the preliminary checking on zoning etc. Not sure about height yet. Once I have chosen size and features, I will hire a contractor to supervise things. It will be money well spent. Land needs preparation, tree needs to come down, cement poured, more than I can handle since I've never done any of this before.

Don't go with the standard size garage door. Go taller and wider!

In floor heat isn't that expensive. The tubing isn't all that expensive, and your heat source can be a water heater (preferably gas). One of my buddies has that setup and a lot of the time his shop building is too hot, even when it's way below freezing. You don't need an expensive boiler to run it. I'd get it priced out for comparison. But down there you can probably heat it with a camp stove in the middle of the floor.
You probably don't care about finishes, so the electrical and lighting can be surface mounted and done after the building shell is completed (as long as you have the stub-ins for the service - and that can even be overhead or outside the building if underground).

Thanks for the added advice. At first thought, it seemed like adding expense without much benefit. I'll definitely check on the price. Would I need to add water from an outside source or could I just keep a storage tank inside the garage as my supply line and refill as needed with a garden hose?

Jay, 9' is not going to cut it for a lift and our old trucks. I'm looking at a direct lift and will need closer to 11'...which would be 12' in standard heights. Those metal direct prices look pretty good, just can't see what the structure is made of and how sturdy it is. Agree you should put a little 6X6 pad outside to get the compressor out there. Could also put gas cans, and flammable containers and maybe the parts washer if don't like the smell of varsol/etc. Fun project.

If you don't have a permanent water source, you could pressurize the system with a garden hose. All you need to do is maintain about 12-15 psi in the system and be sure to put a small hydropneumatic tank (bladder type Amtrol or similar brand) in the system. You'd just need to watch the pressure to be sure it was staying up. With a tight system, you should theoretically never lose any pressure. You shouldn't need to put antifreeze in it where you are either.

Jay, check and double check the height needed if you plan to ever put a lift in it. Again, double check the height needed and think of the vehicles you will be putting on it.

...I'm getting way ahead now but after its built I'd recommend sealing/painting the concrete. It is nice when cleaning up or doing anything else. Just a thought!

Sealed concrete is excellent for cleaning up oily spills!

Guys,
All these comments are very much appreciated. I am benefitting from the collective wisdom here. The end result will be much better than if just my thoughts alone.
I contacted Hoover which is just a few miles from where I live. They just might get the job. They offer a complete package and can level the land and pour the concrete too.

Those Hoover buildings look much more like we use around here. I've now built 3 of them, so from experience, highly recommend...roof insulation directly under metal (even if you are going to insulate the building completely later). If you have any humidity at all, moisture will condense on the underside. Learned this the hard way. 2nd, put plastic under your slab so the slab doesn't sweat. 3rd, and this may be a Southern thing, it is definitely a pet peeve of mine, if he uses the bottom girt (usually a pressure treated 2X6 as the slab form board, the concrete must extend under the 2X6 out about 6 inches to keep ants primarily, but all little critters out of your building. I also put 2 large 1/2" galvanized j - bolts in the slab (between the 10' post sections) to tighten that lower girt and metal siding to the slab. You don't have to worry about that last one if you build the building "ON TOP" of the slab, like a conventional home structure. My 30X50 first shop didn't have this, I was a rookie, and after a big rain, I have huge ant mounds migrating up into the building. It's going to cost me to rectify after the fact.

Concerning lifts, there are low clearance lifts available that will work with a 9 or 10' ceiling. My lift is not one of those and I'm fortunate it worked in my shop and luck was on my side when I built the shop 30 years ago. The fact that it's 30' wide ( and the doors are on the long 40' side) allowed my lift with 12'4" legs (two post) to fit in one of three bays directly in the center or under the ridge of the shop. I have 13' from floor to ceiling at the ridge beams. The cab of a truck has sufficient clearance to do a full lift and with 15' from shop c/l to the door, the back of the bed has plenty of
clearance as well.

The roof pitch is 2 to 1.

It might be worth a phone conversation or two with the lift suppliers you're leaning toward and see what they advise.

I bought my USA made Rotary lift last year from a State Gov auction for $1050 (around 4k new) and paid $500 to have it installed. It had seen little use and is one of the best investments I've made. Should have bought when I was younger and motivated since at 65 my motivation to work on projects has waned a bit.

Added in edit: I mentioned lifts are available for low clearance ceilings. On reflection, even-though this is true you have to consider what you'll be lifting. With a truck, you need to add the height of the truck from bottom of frame to cab top (with a few inches safety zone) to whatever walk around underneath room you require to determine a minimum ceiling height me thinks.

OK, all this talk about having a lift makes me really want one. Really really want one. Not sure a building that tall will meet code. I'll have to see.

About the doors.
I need ideas.
Seems like a standard roll up garage door would get in the way of a lift. So I was thinking of a 2 door style. One left and one right that open to the outside. So the metal building would be framed for that style instead of the roll up kind.

Also, HERE is the HOOVER constrction details.
Looks like they use 29G steel Panel-Loc Plus. LINK HERE

Good info here about this the garage and lift. Anyone have a recommendation tho as to how thick a concrete floor should be for the lift? How is the lift secured to he floor?

Depends on the lift, they all have specifications for concrete and anchors, just ask or read the literature on their sites. Generally they're held down with anchor bolts or studs epoxied in the slab.

Every manufacture seems to have a slightly different spec on slab thickness. Many say 4" is good (Rotary 4 1/4" min.), some want 6" and Mohawk (the absolute Cadillac) requires 12". Best is to go to the web site for the lift you're considering and see what they require.

My slab was 6", however I had a crack exactly in the way. So, rented a walk behind concrete saw with water cooling, bought a $100 diamond blade and cut out a 4'x15' section.

When I got the old concrete out, I found a tree root under the crack...so much for the shade trees, I've since cut 3.

Dug down a little deeper, put down #4 rebar on 12" centers on little spacers and dug under the existing slab 6" then had 8" of 5k concrete pored.

I sprayed water on the concrete and kept it covered with plastic and wet for a 5 days and didn't install the lift for 4 weeks.

Lift is anchored with 3/4"x10" redhead style anchor bolts torqued to 150 lbs.

Well shoot, Grigg is quicker on the trigger than me.

Haha! This is great! I will need to plan in floor pipes for heating so they are not in the way of the lag bolts for the lift!!!! Yikes.

Lol, right-o, but it gets better. You really need to make sure the rebar that you'll install in the lift anchor area doesn't interfere with the anchor bolts as well.

Having the lift on hand when I laid my rebar, I used "CAD" to make sure I had no conflict with the rebar (...read "Cardboard Assisted Design" I made a cardboard template of the leg bases and adjusted the rebar to insure no conflict.

It has been suggested I'm a bit anal at times.

You don't want the standard garage style. You want the standard commercial style. http://www.dragonmetalindustries.com/resources/images/shared/rollupdoor.jpg

2 door works, but if you have a front apron, it'll have to be clear when you want to open them all the way.

Depending on where you put your lights a standard garage door, like mine, will block some of the light when the door is up. You may not be able to avoid but just a thought.....and the older we get the MORE light we need!!

Sliding barn doors. Out of the way for everything except the lawnmower when your mowing.

Depending on your arrangement I have to agree with Martin on the sliders. They are a fraction of the cost of a roll up, and if you have the building width they are very effective. I have built 5 hinged swing doors 10x11 and they would have cost a fortune to have a welder build them. I didn't want to give up any height for a rollup and am very pleased, but it was a bit of work to say the least.

So the barn door sliders use overhead trolley wheels that roll on a rail?

That's right Jay. I've got 3 pair of them on 2 buildings and they are very effective and inexpensive, and can be locked on the inside if you have a walk in door elsewhere.