The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk 50 Chevy title question

The engine in my '50 1/2 ton was replaced with a 235. I have the jamb plate, but it obviously doesn't match the newer engine. I have a clear title in my name. What problems does this cause?

Depends on the state. Arizona titles are the serial number (on frame too) not the motor number.

I didn't know there were numbers on the frame. If so, where are they located?

Don't plan on selling it.

My truck has an expired license tag. It has been sitting for many years. The title is in my name.

I just found the ID plate. It reads: 9HP I 15712

I never really compared it to my title VIN number, which reads:

HBM45758 .. Something is seriously wrong here, right?

Maybe the VIN number on my title is for the 235 6 cylinder that was in my truck when I bought it.. I replaced it with another 235 years ago.. (looking back, I should have rebuilt the old one..)

No.. gone 30 years ago..

I did some online research, and found that the number on my title shows it's the original engine that was in the truck:

Engine Number

But it doesn't match the ID tag on the door jamb.. Now I'm really confused..

Maybe the 216 was replaced with another 216 ??

Maybe if I had a clear title, (and the second 216 engine) the VIN number on the title should read: HBM15712 ??

What does not match?

It looks like a reasonable match to me (but, I could be wrong - someone will most likely correct or confirm).

9HP I 15712
Vehicle Serial Number for a 1950 truck
9 = assembly plant = Norwood, OH
HP = 1950 3100 truck
I = 9th month = September
15712-1000 = 16,712th 3100 truck out of that plant that year

HBM45758
Engine Serial Number for a 1950 truck
HBM = 1950 216 engine from Tonawanda, NY, installed in a 3100 truck
45748-1000 = 44,748th engine from that plant in that year

http://www.1954advance-design.com/chev-specs/1950-Chevrolet-t-ser.pdf

Looks like someone replaced the original 216 with another one. They went to the DMV and got the title corrected to reflect the replacement engine change. Then that second 216 was replaced with a more modern 235 with no contact with the DMV. So..

1. The ID tag doesn't match the title.

2. The title doesn't match the 235 that is in there now.

3. I need to throw away the ID tag and go to the DMV and ask them the procedure for replacing the engine on a '50 Chevy truck whose VIN # is identified by it's engine number..

Right??

Also, it wouldn't hurt to find a way to run the ID tag # and verify this truck was not stolen..

Yepper. It's always best to get your info from the folks you'll have to deal with.

One snag would be if they wanted to see the old engine.. probably been recycled and to China and back by now..

The truck has not changed owner ship since the last time it was registered.

All you should have to do is to bring old registration down to the DMV and say you want to register it again. You pay your money and you will get your plates.

Do you have a receipt for the latest engine?

Then you can show that. And get a new vin number. But this could open a can of worms.

I'm not worried about getting a new tag, I just would like to straighten the title out to match the truck.. who knows ?.. I might need to sell it one day.

I'm sure Florida has a procedure for correcting a title. You need to find out what that procedure is and follow it to a T. Probably will involve someone of authority looking at both the title and the truck. They likely will not be able to trace anything number wise but will determine if it is stolen. You know it's not, so don't worry about that. Forms will be filled out and signed and money will exchange hands and the new corrected title will arrive in the mail a few days later. Guessing the process will take weeks if not months. Good luck.

I just went online to Florida DMV. Apparently the title is inactive from not being registered for the last 25 years.

I filled out a form asking about correcting the title and telling them about the engine swap. I will let you all know what they tell me.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

THAT is a wise move!

Buy a new jamb plate. Stamp the numbers on your title on it. Attach it to the truck.

So much bad advice here, I'd hate to have to pick the good advice out of it.

It on the front outside passenger side, about where the steering connects.

No numbers by GM on the frame for 1950 Chevrolet trucks.

on the water pump www.patricksantiquecars.com sell a short pump option if you don't want to move the radiator.

The adapter referred-to in the first quote is described here.

The advantage of the adapter plate is that you can use the original water pump (and pulley and harmonic balancer and generator), and the original fan is is the correct/original location (for optimal cooling). And, of course, there is no need to move the radiator.

Perhaps a British version??

GMCs were stamped there until the late '40s. Chevies never were.

There ya go, we learned something. Mine is a 1948 GMC.

I reread this thread.. are you saying that the engine number should match the title, but not necessarily the number on the cab plate?

Edit:

Good news for me.. I searched and found out that the cab plate has nothing to do with the number on the title. The number on the title is the engine number.. although I no longer have the original engine, at least I have the correct cab plate. (I have read that in some states they use the cab plate number as the ID number on the title. I wish that was the case with my truck.)

Different DMV offices in the same state might have used the Vehicle Serial Number or the Engine Serial Number, but it seems that most DMVs consistently used the Engine Serial Number.

Thanks Tim.. Don't know what I was thinking by assuming that the vehicle and engine serial number were the same. I mentioned this in the thread, but nobody caught me on it. I will attempt to get an answer from the DMV again. They never replied to my last email. I guess I will have to go down and talk to them.

using a engine number on a title? never heard of such a thing

The engine number on my 52 panel was on the original title. In 2006 here in S.C. you had to take your vehicle to the DMV and let them see it! Since mine didn't run they actually came to my house. I had the front end off and the guy looked at the number and gave me a slip of paper to take back to the DMV.

...in 2014 I went to get a title for my Chevy coupe. I still had the car on the trailer for them to inspect. When I walked in the door and "greeted" at the information desk they told me they did not do that anymore and gave me the paper work to fill out. A few minutes later I was out the door and the title came in about a week.....for $25 bucks extra they would have printed me out a title right there!

There is no telling how they do things today and everyone's suggestion to check with your DMV is the best advice for anyone needing title work, along with don't buy a vehicle unless you get a valid title. It can be a booger to get one in many states.

Dune,

Can't tell if you are joking.

In case you are serious, it was quite common to use the engine serial number until 1957. There was no year code/indicator in 1957 and later years engine serial numbers, so in those later years an engine serial number was not a good registration identifier.

In earlier years, using an Engine Serial Number obviously caused problems when an engine was replaced.

Just like early Harley Davidsons.. no number on the frame, just the engine and that was the number on the title.

I believe what you say.
Here in Oregon if there are any numbers on the frame you must use those. Did a frame off restore on a 1931 ford pickup a couple of years ago and DMV wanted to check the frame for the VIN,Turns out the VIN #'s were on the frame under the drivers door, had to lift the body to see them! Did I mention that the truck was done!

I had to go down to the DMV yesterday to transfer a title on a motorcycle, so after doing so, I asked the lady about my truck. She disappeared for a while and came back informing me she was trying to find out the procedure and that If I gave her my number, she would find out and call me. She called back the same day, but I missed both calls and realized my voicemail was full.. I figured she would give up and I wouldn't hear from her (I certainly wouldn't blame her..) I emptied my voicemail and apparently she tried to call me again the next day.. missed that one too (long story), but she left a message. All I need to do is to bring a bill of sale for the engine, signed by the seller, with his phone number and it's serial number ( a mid 50's 235 straight 6), fill out a form and that would be it.. no inspection required.

Only thing about this I don't like is what if I change engines again? I would have to go through the same thing. Also I have no bill of sale for the engine... got it back in '84 or so.

I guess I have some options..

1: do as above

2: just go down with the title that is in my name and get a tag and don't worry about it, until I sell it (if I ever do..).

3: Another option, but it is shady and might make things worse.. Give them the number off the original ID tag that is affixed to the drivers door jamb instead of the 235 engine number that they are asking for. That way I could use any engine I want without a hassle..

Any thoughts?

Repeating what 32vld and Martin said: You have caused more trouble for yourself. It sounds like you are giving WAY too much info to DMV. First of all, the correct info was given: Go to DMV and get a tag. I believe you know that. Sounds like there will be no questions if you are the owner of record and you have your ID (drivers license).

When you sell it, at least in my state, you would sign over the title and the new owner would go down to DMV and get the title transferred. If everyone stops mentioning about the title not matching, and you follow DMV normal procedure it will transfer. You have documentation and the story of how it got mismatched to tell a buyer. It will get sold and resold for a 100 years that way.

If your state needs an inspection every time to see that numbers match, get a supervisor to understand that the VIN plate is the way to go, obviously. Get them to change the Title to match the VIN plate. If removed by you already, make sure you reattach the VIN plate in original location without making it look like it was ever off. Do not play any funny games with a new, aftermarket plate unless you already know what size handcuffs you wear. Stick with the honest story and do honest common sense things.

Your no. 1 can't work, no Bill of Sale. If you did have BOS, still mismatched numbers.
Your no. 2 works.
Your no. 3 is an interesting idea BUT you don't have a bill of sale for that "engine" number. So that's out.

Get title to read 9HP I 15712, that is the coup de grass or whatever.
I didn't know that about 40's frame stamp that Cletis mentions. So that means GMC did and Chevy didn't...then Chevy did and GMC didn't. Weird production ideas back then.

Here in Arizona they assign a Vin and install a tag on your door sill.

Thanks for the input.

I will leave things as is. If I ever sell the truck, it will be to someone that understands the situation. I could even give them a bill a sale for the engine, since technically, I am selling it to them. If they don't understand the common practice of changing engines in these old trucks, then there will be another buyer.

The main thing is to know that currently there is an easy fix to my trucks mismatched title and can be straightened out if need be. Just requires filling out a form. Hopefully, the procedure will not change in the future. The form clearly states that 1954 and earlier vehicles are titled by the engine number, so getting the ID tag number on the title would be a big mistake.

If I really wanted to, I could come up with a bill of sale for the engine though. I could sell it to someone and then buy it back. The company I bought it from in 1984 as a long block with exchange is no longer in business.

I still have the original mounting screws for the ID tag and will put it back on the truck.

Even in my little po-dunk Texas town the clerks totally understood that my title had numbers on it from the original motor block (which had been replaced, and was long gone). They checked my bill of sale from the PO, and made sure the truck was not stolen in their records, and then got the current serial number off the driver's door data plate and replaced the old motor number on the title with the current data plate serial number. Now, the serial number on the title perfectly matches the number on data plate. Ignoring this easy fix could likely make it hard to sell someday. This was a piece of cake for me! Good Luck!