The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline How to work with this brake hose?

In prep for a dual brake master upgrade, I ordered the MC adapter from a supplier of CPP stuff.

For the rest of the more common brake parts, I ordered from Rockauto (bulk brake line & fittings from local).

In Rockauto’s drop down menu (for '54 Chevy 3100) they listed several front brake hose choices and so I chose Raybestos BH4900 — threaded on both ends.

When I received the hoses I realized that the wheel cylinder end didn’t have the steel extension tube (allows for better clearance above the kingpin) and other end is threaded, not a slot type needed for the frame bracket. Hmm, a hose for a different application maybe? ..drat!

So I guess my question is, how can I adapt this hose to fit this truck ('55 1st series 3100)?

Hy 55firstseries, according to my old United brake catalogue a 4900 is the correct hose for your front brake application, that number crosses to the Raybestos BH4900 that you have. You should be able to secure the hose to the frame end using a 5/8 N.F. Jam nut (1/2 thickness nut). Parts such as brake hoses may be purchased at your F.L.A.P.S. (Lordco in our case), unless RockAuto's price is so good as to be cheaper than a local purchase, but don't forget to add freight costs, hope that helps.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, Rockauto has great pricing including the s/h. But obviously I'm giving up personal counter service, which I'm now regretting.

So, if I stayed on this route, will the shorter (wheel cylinder) hose-end also be able to fit into the tight spot above the kingpin?

Or to try and correct my plans, I'm now wondering if the wheel cylinders I also picked up are the right ones. They are Raybestos WC14493/4 (7/16" port) for 1/4" lines (as is the hose in question).
These were the only size specified for this truck. And that info is also common at Lordco and on most websites.

But my existing front wheel cylinders, hose (with the extension tube) and lines are 3/16" (with 3/8" port).
And I'm not sure if even the 1/4" WC above will be a direct physical fit.

I can't seem to locate anything designated for the fronts other than for 1/4" plumbing ..the rears, yes.
Hence, my purchase.

If I knew of a 3/16" WC part number that also fits, then I could just put that in instead, and a proper hose would fit. It'd be status quo, only with new parts.

The specialty vintage parts sites won't provide the manufacturer's part number -- for obvious reasons.

Don't count on Rock Auto for their "application data" being correct. After this many years, their lines get muddy. I found leaf spring shackle bushings from NAPA that said they would fit. I special ordered them only to find they were too long. 55 second series started using wider springs. So I went the Rock Auto route. The drop down showed absolutely they fit front springs for my 54 half ton. They too had to special order them from the exact same warehouse as NAPA which turned out to be GM via AC Delco. They were too long also. Bottom line is that even GM doesn't know anymore what their parts fit and what they don't. The years have given us younger parts guys that either have their elbows super glued to the counter when you tell them what year vehicle you have or they can only show you what the computer says is correct.

Amend to that, Greg
Local parts Co. is hit and miss. If I happen to be there when the "old guy" is there, there might be hope for what I'm looking for. Otherwise, it's overpriced for a 'begging find' and 20% restocking even if they are wrong.
That's one reason why I went the Rockauto route. To me it looked like Parts Nirvana. But then these brake parts arrived and they were not a direct fit for my truck.

So I had to exchange a wheel cylinder because Raybestos two RH units via Rockauto.
Then they re-sent yet another RH cylinder. Ended up with a refund (and several spares) and now holding my breath that another ordered from Amazon will actually be the needed LH cylinder.
Gee, maybe Raybestos now only makes one-side fitment cylinder?

Anyway, back to my previous Ask. Need to know what the part number is for the original 3/16" front wheel cylinders. If I can find that out from someone here who has it recorded then it may be my best bet for success.
Or, perhaps I can order the same part for the fronts as the rears ..if they fit?

If not then I'll have to live with what I received and adapt the heck out of it to the 3/16" lines ..or change it all to 1/4" lines.

Crib note: I originally (20 yrs back) got the truck partly because of local easy-to-find parts. But now everything is becoming $pecialty and a ridiculous hassle to find. And that's just for use as a 'daily driver'.

Not sure, but checked Classic Parts website. I think I see a longer snout on their cylinder. (The boss that receives the hose) As compared to Rockauto and as compared to Classics rear cylinder. If that is the case, it would possibly have better clearance.
http://www.classicparts.com/1951-59-Wheel-Cylinder-Front-Left/productinfo/71-107/#.V3rFAen6s5s

ALSO please notice on link page below how the front cylinders do not have an opposing boss, just the rears. The opposing boss is so that one casting can suffice for left and right rears. The long boss had to be centered to fit into the hole in backing plate. I am proposing that the fronts, having an extra long boss, did not allow for dual purpose casting. Which makes me believe boss is actually longer and "positioned" correctly to clear. So check out all those cylinders you've been getting.
http://www.classicparts.com/Wheel-Cylinders/products/114/

They don't give a line size or even a brand part number. It would also close on $100/pr landed here, which is way too much moolah for me.

Please re read my post. I added some info. The reason they don't give line size is that it fits the proper line, which they sell also. The reason they don't give industry part number is so you can't bypass them. This is where you should have started. NOT RockAuto. These vendors specialize in our trucks, aye?
Too much moolah? How much money and trouble and reship have you had?
Just trying to help and explain, not damning you.

Thanks for your comments.
But sheesh, are you shilling for the reseller?
Anyway, not going there anymore ..did my time years back.

This truck is ONLY used as a driveway parker, so springing for regular parts at specialty pricing is not going to happen -- did a lot of that in the early days of ownership. Lessons learned

That being said, I guess these old vehicles are now quietly leaving behind the parts grid.

Anyway, I'll reiterate by saying that in the meantime, if I find the correct 3/16" WCs for the fronts I may return the whole works (R-auto has been easy to deal with) and get those parts locally ..but I have to know what they are by part numbers. Should be pretty straight forward, methinks.

Btw, I did recheck the w-cylinders and just one has the double boss. But they are still for 1/4" lines. If they fit into the backing plate I may yet use them and adapt to the 3/16 lines if no findy for the correct parts.

Hy 55firstseries, according to my old catalogues, you have ordered the correct wheel cylinders, which have 7/16" X 20 t.p.i. female thread. What was the part number on the wheel cylinder you received the most of? The part numbers are WC14494 for the left, and WC14493 for the right.

I did a whole spiel on RockAuto and their return policy. I found that the way they work is: you pick the part for your vehicle and they ship that part. If it does not fit, it's your problem. Heavy penalties $$ for ship back. That's what I found.
I do like local parts stores because where I go I can take it back, no questions, no charge and I don't have to wait for shipping. In this case, and it was me, hopefully I would have discovered that WC14493/4 did not work, taken them back to FLAPS and then researched. This was a tough one, I agree. I know I would have looked at the "specialty" vendors, if that's what you want to call them, to see if I could figure it out. Which, in the end, I did, because I really like to solve and find parts. Have had to do it many times when in your position. Hope it turns out good before it "brakes" you.

I received all WC14494 (WC14493 mislabelled) with BH4900 hoses (clipless types -- go figure).

I know everywhere I've looked (online and locally) says the front wheels are with 1/4" lines but not mine. If one looks at the diagrams it will show only one 1/4" line that crosses via the center brace and just feeds the passenger side "tee". Then it's all 3/16" from there.

Hah -- thanks. Nah, it won't break me, bud. But it's good to know we're now on the same page.

I'm pretty much the same way as you. But I'm finding these last few years the fun is fading away with this truck -- my wife can attest to that

With the local parts folks, I'll still keep using them but just hate holding their hand while they figure out what I want.

So far R-auto has been good to deal with. They recognize that manufacturers/suppliers are goofing up on their listings and so they are cutting me a break with return shipping. But like I said, I may just keep the remainders and make 'em work if I can't spare more time waiting for the correct parts.

I look up what I want in a dozen places on line, then I go tell the local what I want. I never ask them.
Here's a good one for you. Raybestos WC14493/4= single, centered inlet. Wagner WC14493/4= dual inlet (offset bosses). Go figure. I wish I was there to see the problem. I am sure you are not the first guy to get new WC, Someone with a 55.1 will help.

Fading Fun:
I get that way sometimes with fixing up trucks. It's a thing we all go thru. We get older, see the end of the build is far away, part troubles, hot summers, cold winters, other interests, wives (bless their hearts). Gumption returns when you watch a TV show, read the Stovebolt, see one driving down the street or someone keeps asking "when are you going to get that done!" (bless their hearts)

The hose you want is BH13841 Long nose, with the slot/groove, for 3/16 lines (3/8-24) and fits WC inlet (7/16-20). Cheer up!

..or "interested in selling your truck?" bwahaha

Yeah, ours now needs body work -- which is a slippery slope for me. We bought a new car last year and it really draws attention to the dilemma.

When the wrong parts showed up, I called R-auto and the guy immediately offered a refund. Said there was a bigger issue here that they had to look after. I'll bet there is!

So (as mentioned) I then ordered a WC14493 from Amazon. 7 days later it still hadn't shipped. Contacted them, and had me cancel and reorder while still online. Seems they couldn't come up with the part even though the site showed several in-stock!!

But after re-re-rethinking about this little parts debacle, I decided to fully cancel it again and just go to plan-B.

But too late this time ..it's on its way for this Wed.
Be interesting to see if it is the WC14493 and not another WC14494 (from the same supplier?)
That's if these WC14493/4s really do fit as advertised and I can also make the BH4900 hoses attach properly.
Gee, makes me now wonder if the shoes I ordered will even work out (Rayb 228PG)

55firstseries standing by...

Look up at my last post.

So really? I went down that street too, but from what I could determine, the long nose hose end fits a 3/16 WC (3/8-24). The brake line slot/groove end fits a 3/16 brake line connector -- just like my truck's current config.

Ok, I accessed R-auto with that part number and yep, it's as you say ..if they are correct with their specs.

But will that hose work into a WC without a reverse flare cone -- like the WC14493/4 with copper washers?

If not, then which WC will work with it?

Ya know, I may have to actually take my old front brake assembly apart to find out for sure. I've been known to mismeasure

Hah.. I guess we're out of sync here

"But will that hose work into a WC without a reverse flare cone -- like the WC14493/4 with copper washers? "

Not sure what you are asking BUT:

The WC end of the hose just bottoms out in the WC, no washer. The hex on hose will not touch the WC inlet face. The nose male taper matches the WC female taper.(down inside). Call it like a flare seal if you wish.
Washers are for banjo type connections. That hose has everything you said you wanted. It fits everything you have. Have fun and Plumb it!

I disagree. These WC14493/4 cylinders I have require a copper washer as there is no flare cone in them. It's machine threaded with the washer as its primary seal.
The proper hose with its fitting should secure against the flats of that particular WC (using the washer). The hoses I bought (BH4900) are such a pair. BUT, they do not have the WC port fitting snout like the one you suggest. And they do not have the slotted end for the frame bracket.

So the hose you are referring to cannot fit these cylinders I have.

So ok then, as a dog chases its tail, what model of WC will be needed for this application and that hose -- what combination?

Lots of places have 47-54 and 55-59. Most vendors don't say 55.1, You keep searching 1954 I guess. There could be changes and/or the Locals and the RockAutos of the world are confused.

EDITED:

It is interesting to note that Rockauto tried. They list front and rear wheel cylinders for 1955 Chevrolet as:

Thru 4/55
From 4/55

Yes, they incorrectly list 3100/3200 for early 1955.

They do not list early or late 1955 for hoses.

The MP&A Catalog shows the same hoses front/rear 3100 from 51-57 (probably 51-59).

I have bought 1954 3100 brake hoses from the same vendors and have at least twice received one or two of the three hoses made to work with a wrong diameter brake line. Oh, well.

Rockauto once sold me an incorrect brake hose for my COE - they immediately sent me the correct hose - at no cost to me, of course.

Tim, your parts list link says the hose is 3696551 which is, in fact, BH13841. It is the official replacement for the GM part.
The only difference is that it is now 18 1/4" long.
By using your link, I was able to confirm that the wheel cylinder 5455478/9 is WC14493/4. So now both WC and hose confirmed.
Thank you for posting that!

Use WC14493/4 and BH13841, buy them anywhere.

I really appreciate your input guys.
It's become a very involving thread

But there's still no hands-on experience here with these particular parts, just anecdotal stuff from online retailers.
I need further convincing of that combination as I do not want to put it all together only to have it fail and become a bag of used parts.

Perhaps some folks with some direct experience with these WC14493/4 cylinders (or hose combo) will chime in and satisfy ??

Anecdotal from online retailers?. More like Time consuming, exhausting, web searching, multi-source confirmation, GM document researching by those helping, my friend.
I do understand you are hesitant because of the hassle you've been thru. But we have answered your call. You have all the info to confirm it for yourself.

yep, and I have also done a lot of that myself so I know where yer coming from.
..thanks again for your time

If no further info coming my way, I'm probably just going to yank the wheel cylinder and hose to satisfy my curiosity (it's gotta get done anyway).

It's what I did in the old days, then took the part to the local supplier for a match. But as some have already said, countermen[kids] today are too busy to oblige.

I can report back to this post later with the results..

Sounds good.

Well it's been almost a month since my last post and have been a busy boy since.
Besides upgrading the brakes, a new rear u-joint, exhaust manifold/pipe gasket, radiator bottom mount pads, and all suspension spring shackle bushings have now been replaced.

But by far the most challenging was upgrading the master cylinder to a dual type.

But in the end, it wasn't too difficult -- just took my time, kept my frustration (at parts sourcing) at bay and... voila! it was finished and road tested.

Here's the Photobucket link to the brakes upgrade.
If you have any questions about the job, please feel free to ask me about it.

http://s525.photobucket.com/user/my_pics48/slideshow/3100%20Truck/Brakes%20upgrade

As it turned out, Bartamos was right on with his front brake part numbers ..they were correct for this truck and fit perfectly
Thanks again to everyone in this thread, for your help

So, the only real challenge was doing some minor mods of the POL bracket (redrilled mounting holes) for proper frame fitment. And the bolts that came with the kit were of incorrect strength or thread for the application -- wasn't worth the hassle for reshipment as local hardware store had what I needed.

All and all, a fun little project. The new (front)brakes, lines and dual MC stop the truck ok, albeit not what a front disc kit would have provided, but satisfactory for my needs of casual driving.

FWIW, Rockauto were superb with their service. They took back wrong parts with no hassle -- even supplied return international postage, then a refund to my cc via Paypal.
And, I still managed to source some stuff out through FLAPS although it is getting harder to find what this truck needs: common parts are less-so nowadays