The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 ,fix it or junk it

So I got the 50 Chevy motor unstuck and running, took a truck up and down the road, steers ok,the gauges all work,tranny works just dandy,but no brakes, easy to fix.The truck is pretty original, has all the bits and pieces,the rust is tolerable as is for a casual ride.
Problem,the engine has two leaky exhaust valves, leaky enough to cause a misfire.I did another leak down test, very little air escapes past the rings now, #4 and 5 cylinders have the bad valves.I even rotated the two exhaust valves with a vise grip to "clean them up",but no difference.
The engine also smokes,not a huge cloud,but some.Oil pressure is good for a 216.
So.....I can't stand to have a poor running engine,do I pull the head,replace a few valves and reface the seats, hope the smoke is from worn guides and or the o ring guide seals are bad as usual. Or just forgetabout it and find a running 235. :confused:
Not on of the 3 licensed trucks I own is stock,even the 45 2 ton has a later 235,be nice to have one sorta original truck.

I think I would do a little head work and keep the 216 for as long as it holds up. Until that time, you can look for a replacement 216 or upgrade to a 235 or 261. Either way, you will have fun.
Ralph

I might be a little prejudice towards keeping the 216 Tony, so if the rings seem OK and it don't knock I'd try a simple valve job. If you want a little more piece of mind and feel a little adventuresome, pull the pan and check the rod and main bearings. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to clean out the pan anyways.

You could try to lap the valves and check for bent valvestems or sunk exhaust seats. Should be cheap fix if the valves and seats are still serviceable. You may be able to install viton stem seals without pulling head. That'll shut up the oil burning past guides.

But come up with a plan B to prevent "service creep". You know, tune up turns into valve service turns into pull head turns into clean up carbon turns into service bearings turns into rebuild.

Back when those things were much newer, we did a lot of in-frame ring & valve jobs. I know it's not too popular these days, but it was about a 2-day job to do an in-the-frame overhaul. New rings, hone the cylinders, grind the valves, and redo the shim pack on the rods. I think the total price, parts and labor, was about $125.00! Then, about 25,000 miles later, it was time to do it again! Those were the days!
Jerry

Hmmm,yeah probably a cheap valve job will do,maybe.Like Chip says, the beware of creeping costs.
I'm thinking this engine was redone not that long ago,the valvetrain and head is spotless ,red painted valve springs, and when I drained the old oil,I probed into the drain bung with a wire,no crud to be found.
Jerry, I did a few in frame overhauls back when,they worked Ok ,especially on a vehicle that won't accumulate a lot of miles.
The owner of the local machine shop owes me a favor, probably get the head done properly for just the cost of parts.
Or I can do nothing until a running 235 falls my way, but there is some nostalagic value in the old babbit beater.

I've still got "visitor" priveleges at the machine shop where I used to work, and they've got the equipment to rebore the babbit rods for insert bearings. If you decide to do a full rehab, send me the rods and I'll convert them to the Federal insert bearing setup.
Jerry

I'd pull the head and see what things look like. If it's too bad, slap it back together and run it till it quits. If the cylinders look okay, valve job and drive it.

Tony,
you have too much fun for one person! What a great find. I would think that if it smokes when you rev it a little, it is rings. If it smokes after idling for a while , the problem is in the head. Although it is probably a combination, I would think that there is a high probability of a stuck ring or two. Some people say that adding some synthetic oil may help.

There is a guy in Beamsville Ont that did a great job converting my rods to inserts and he is very reasonable.

By the way, the Geneseo airshow this year was one of the best ones ever. There were some very rare warbirds flying.

Fred

So all this talk about "babbit bangers" has got me curious...

A couple of you fellas mentioned the insert bearing conversion. I've heard of this being done, have a vague idea of what's involved. BUT, I'm wondering if there's anywhere I could go on the 'Net and LOOK a this conversion? :confused:

Any links, guys (OR GALS!! )?

Regards,
Wannabe

Wanna,babbit? did ya know that 6000 hp 500 cubic inch nitro dragsters have babbit lined bearing shells?That's as much as I know about babbit.
I once bought a beat up 64 MGB, ran but smoked and had a dead cylinder.I popped the head, bad exhaust valve, and the machinist found a crack in the head.Got another head, took a look at the glazed scratched cyliners walls.Cleaned all the oil from the cylinders,with two cylinders at BDC,make a rope calk joint around the piston,then dry honed the cylinder quickly.Sucked up the mess with a shop vac, installed the head.The engine ran ok, didn't smoke,ran it that way for 5000 miles until I could do a proper rebuild.This may work for the 50 Chevy.

Wannabe,
check your Email. I have sent you some information and photos.

Wannabe, I've done conversion a few times, and it works very well. The rod is bored out until all the babbit is gone, and a few thousandths are removed from the steel part of the rod. Then, a couple of notches are filed or ground into the rod for the anti-rotation tabs on the insert bearings. The result is a rod that accepts insert bearings, in whatever undersize is necessary to fit a reground crankshaft. The same low-pressure dipper-type oiling system is used as the original babbit bearings have, but the bearings are replaceable, instead of having to look for replacement rods.
Jerry

I would run the numbers on your engine and see if it's original or even a 216. Not alot of the 216's stayed in there original trucks. If it's not the original engine, I would definitely go with the upgrade. (I would go small block myself)
Do what feels right, it's only money. Around these parts, Big Brother has a program to have people turn in the vehicles that smoke excessively so the Barney Fife types can shut you down. I don't totally disagree but, old vehicles smoke and are usually used occassionally.
Just my 2 cents,
Scott

I would drive it some more and see if it improves. It very well could. Those two valves might just be slightly sticky. If it becomes a nuisance, pull the head.

48,old engines need not smoke or run poorly,if a person can't afford to have a properly running vintage truck or car,leave it parked.The 50 truck won't be driven on the road until it's fixed or heals itself.

The valve problem was probably caused by the valves being open during the time it sat and rusted and are not seating now,I bought a 55 olds that had only around 5000 miles on a rebuild that sat for 7 years and it had one exhaust valve that did not seat properly. A simple home valve job should cure the problem and if you need any gaskets I think I have a set for the 216 which you can have for the cost to ship,I think the cork gaskets are shot but the head,intake/exhaust and other gaskets are good.

Jeff, I'm hoping that's all it is, but I poppped the push rods, pushed the rocker aside, and spun the valves with a grips.On the two bad valves,I could feel a "catch" as the valve was rotated.Today with the new water pump on,I ran the engine in place at a high idle for half an hour, then ran it up and down the street for awhile.The good news is the oil pressure stays just above 15 lbs when running faster than an idle and there is no babbit knocking to be heard.The exhaust smoke seems to diminish pretty much once the engine is fully warm.
Guess I'll pull the head, look at the valves and the cylinder walls.If the cylinders look ok,might as well crawl underneath,pop the pan and do the rings.
Does anyone have a "Target Gauge",used to adjust the rod squirter tubes?Babbit rod failures are almost always due to bent squirt tubes.

usually used occassionally?

I would say that these 216s didn't smoke when they were new and they don't after a rebuild. My 216 definitely did not smoke after I rebuilt it.

I just took off the head,the head bolts weren't tight, blown away head gasket between 4 and 5,the other area of the gasket show slight leakage. The valves are ok, plenty of margin left, but the valve seats are pitted, no home remedy will fix it.And the head is warped about .006 of an inch,right on the wear limit.So it's off to the machine shop for a proper valve job abd maybe a surfacing.
The cylinders look pretty good,some rust stains but nothing you can feel with a finger.The engine has iron pistons,no ridge at the cylinder tops,looks like the pistons were stuck, not the rings.I'll quick dry hone the cylinders,call it good to go.

Be sure and clean the cylinders well after the hone job, hot, soapy water and a scrub brush! I ruined a set of rings in 2,500 miles with hone residue once!
Jerry

Just another two cents worth, I have a 216 in my Chev '52 1/2 ton and have 180 grand on it and it is just starting to smoke a bit. She is getting pretty weak though. I've run her hard towing trucks back from California, Southern Utah, Omaha and all over this country in Wyoming. (I have about 30 '47-early '55 GM trucks).The only change I did when I did the rebuild, and it was a '47 engine, was getting the insert conversion. I am biased to the good old 216.

Hey Juan,
Can I come and play in your back yard?
Ralph

The engine is back together,fresh valve job,couple of new exhaust valves, head milled a little,gasket set.
Runs really smooth and quiet,makes smoke when you rev it hard, but no smoke just putting around.Not bad considering the look of the cylinder walls.It starts right up,7.4 volts from the generator,drives ok.My wife will use it for a field truck now,make it fit for the road over the winter.