The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Should I try my own welding?

I have a fair amount of welding to do on my 1940 fenders.

I have no experience welding but I'm considering getting a MIG welder and doing my own work.

Is this a bad idea?

If so, does anyone have recommendations for bodywork in the SF East Bay or Sacramento?

Go for it! What's the worst that can happen? You have to do it over? The satisfaction of doing it yourself more than makes up for any imperfections.
http://www.chuckthetruck.homestead.com/page1.html

While I'd agree with Chuck in principle, you need to look at a little more. What's your future look like for this equipment? Do you plan to do a lot of welding or just this once or twice? The cost of a good mig welder is pretty high. Don't buy a cheap one, it won't get the job done. I started with a cheap one from Sears and had to move up to a Miller to get the job done.

Once you've decided that this kind of investment is for you, read up on how to do it. Welding body panels isn't too bad if you study the procedure and practice.

For a one time deal, you can't beat the local welding shop.

Enjoy!

If you need quite a bit of welding I bet the local welding/body shop would charge at least what half of a decent welder would cost. In that case I usually try to buy it myself.
I want to learn to weld a few fender cracks myself and figure practicing with some old metal should get me there. Now all I need is a welder.

I was in the same boat as you and i decided to try to fix the fenders on my 39 myself instead of farming them out. I do not know how I survived all these years without a mig. It was worth the investment. The fenders came out great and it gave me the confidence to replace the door bottoms, lower cowl,fix the running boards and make my tailgate which if I would have someone else do would be a small fortune. Go for it and good luck...........Dale

Sounds like the investment is worth it. I have a fair amount of work to do and figured it will about pay for itself.

Now Jerry what should I look for in the welder? About how much should I pay?

Well; there's a whole new discussion. My welder is a Millermatic 90. It's 110 volts as opposed to 220 volts which makes it easier to use. I love it. I bought it about 10 years ago for $600 and change. I have no idea what's good today.

Buy a good 110 v MIG welder and a good electronic welding helmet. That is what I did and it just feels terrific after you have used it for the first time. Mine is a Lincoln. I think that it has four current settings and I will never move off the lowest setting as long as I am doing sheet metal. I even used it when I was fabricating a back for my 47 GMc radio. After having it for a while you will wonder how you lived without it!

well, i just went all the way on my first welder. i got a miler 250. it is a 220v welder with gas. i know it is way more than i need now, but, i will never need more, and i bought it for $500 from a foreclosure sale. my only problem is, i don't have a circuit wired up for it yet. i agree that a 110v welder would be a lot more versatile due to the ease of plugging it in anywhere.

well everyone has good advice but me i do welding for a living for the navy and mig is ok but i recommend that you use a tig and those old fenders are no joke to weld i fixed 2 of mine and it was a tiresome job with that old metal. the stuff is thin and with a mig you don't have as much control over your heat as you do with a tig. but tig is not an easy process and if you don't know how well you can teach your self but it is hard. how ever you wish to do it i wish you luck

If you have the money - get yourself a 220v model. I have a 110 and use my buddy's 220 frequently.

The 110 is nice for sheet metal. As that's as far as she'll penetrate! In other words - if you want versatility in your welder - I would get a good Lincoln or Miller 220, you can still turn them down to do sheet metal (did my El Camino doors with the 220) and you can weld the big stuff too (we did our chassis on the 59 with the same welder we did the doors on the El Camino with).

As for the thickness of this old metal - it's much thicker than the new sheet metal!!!!

Having no sheet metal welding experience I started by filling cracks in my cab. Worked great. Then I went on to fix tears in my fenders, holes in the cab, cab corners and now welding 1/8 metal to sheet metal for the suicide doors.

Get out there and try it. Practice, practice practice.

- Ryan

Oh - make sure you pick up a book or video on Mig welding - especially one for sheet metal - it is a bit of a different process than welding 1/4 inch steel. Many many many spot welds.

- Ryan

I have been watching those motorcycle building shows. I have been seeing a lot of welding.

I was in the same boat a few months back and bought the Miller 135, the biggest 110 v they make. It is a MIG/flux core welder. I got a pkg deal with the kart. Bought a bottle with gas. Cheap (not self darkening) helmet and gloves. It all came out to about $850 (Alaska price).

Good Luck!
Buddy

Call me a dumba$$, but what is the difference between a MIG, TIG, wire or stick welder??
Which is not recommended for sheet metal. Read some where that one of them gets too hot and will burn holes in the metal.
I am trying to get up the guts to buy one but don't know which one would be the best buy for a beginner. Thanks. :confused:

As far as "arc" welders go, the stick is the most basic. The user manually feeds the fill metal, which is a stick held in a clamp. Best for large welds on really thick metal or things like cast iron and building ships.

The wire feed welder is an automated version of the stick welder, it uses a spool of flux core wire fed out through the gun at a rate that you set with a dial. Pretty easy to use but too hot for sheet metal and fine work.

The Mig (metal-inert-gas) welder is an evolution of the wire feed welder with the addition of a shielding gas, usually argon and carbon dioxide. It can do much finer welding with minimal spatter but since the feed rate is constant you have to keep moving. Most true MIG welders can be used in either MIG or wire-feed modes by switching the electrical polarity and wire type. Lowes' sells a nice Lincoln setup for about $450.

The Tig (torch-inert-gas) is a process that uses an arc created by a torch with a tungsten electrode that does not erode. A separate piece of filler wire is used, and the operator has complete control over the spark and feed rate of the filler metal with either a foot or hand control. It requires a fair amount of skill to use but a skilled user can make perfect welds in almost any situation.

Most amateurs will probably get the most use and best results from MIG welding, as they are fairly easy to use and purchase.

4onthefloor,
Thanks for the info! Your reply has answered all my questions! I think I'll go buy a "MIG"!!!
Tony

I learned stick welding years ago in high school and that was OK. Then my brother showed me MIG welding and I thought "Hey, this is much better than stick welding".

Then more recently I was over at my friends machine shop and was building my engine hoist and engine stand and also my tow bar and used his TIG welder. I had never used one before and one of his shop technicians gave me a 5 minute lesson. In no time at all I was getting excellent welds. I like the foot pedal to precisely control the current and the filler rod to add extra material to the weld joint.

When I get ready to buy a welder I'm definitely getting a TIG. His unit is a Lincoln and it works great...and it also has the ability to do stick welding for the thicker metals...

Just my thoughts on the matter

Question, with TIG and a foot control what happens if your not in an upright position, does the torch also have a switch ? Zeke

Zeke,

Yup...it can get tricky...time to do some bending and other special effects :p :p :p .

Seiously, that is a limitation in that a TIG doesn't have the flexibility of a MIG...

The TIG that I was using didn't have a torch mounted control...it was all done from the foot switch...

Still, I would go with a TIG personally...

Tigs can be fitted with hand controls as well as foot, and I think I saw a guy on TV once that had rigged it up so he used his jaw. If you have the cash to spend on a TIG welder and the time to learn, it is definately a great way to weld, but I think for most hobbyists it is overkill. A good MIG is less than half the price of a Tig and in the time it takes to learn the tig you will have welded and ground the fenders with the mig and will be ready to go. Most of us don't weld more than once or twice a year so the practice required to keep the tig skill level up isn't realistic. If you can do it go for it.

For your first piece of welding equipment, I think you should consider an oxy-acetelene unit and take a course on how to use it. You can cut, heat, braze and weld with it and you are never tied down by an electrical cord. After you learn to weld with gas, MIG seems really easy.

I do have a MIG welder. It's a 220V Miller Sidekick XL. It's been absolutely trouble free for over 10 years now. Welds up to 1/4" material (you can't do that with a 110V unit).

If I want a pretty weld, I use gas, otherwise the MIG is the usual tool.

As with all tools safety is a concern. Just read the York PA newspaper today and a 30 year employee at a dealership went to work early was cutting a 55 gal empty drum which had contained windsheild washer fluid. Drum blew off the end severing the oxy acetelene hoses when the next arriving employee arrived he put out the flames but the old vet was burned over 80% of his body and did not survive. Zeke

Sorry I came late to this thread. I'd just like to throw in my 2 cents in favor of the 110v MIG.

I've used gas, stick, MIG, TIG and even a couple times an anvil, a forge, and a hammer. They all have their place. (as far as I'm concerned the Forge's place is in the history books... THAT WORK!)

For the most part, though, I learned to weld while building theatrical scenery. Our shop had 3 of the little 110v "MIGlets" on rolling carts. (They got called "barbie dream welders" by the lead fabricator... chief user of the beastly TIG.) The guy who taught me told me to make "toothpaste" noises while laying a bead across a fillet. He then proceded to blow a big raspberry and lay down a really nice bead. Once you realize that a mig is nothing more than an overgrown, noisy hot-glue gun, it becomes second nature... like driving a drywall screw or shooting a pneumatic tool.

We've had really good luck with miller and lincoln, and a buddy of mine has a really nice little 110V Hobart. Build yourself a little cart with space for the welder, a small tank, a place to hang your helmet, jacket, and gloves... even put a little drawer in there for a spare spool and tip cleaner. (great first practice project)

Anyway.. Go for it. Take it slow. Buy a few extra grinding wheels. And most importantly... take it easy on the "toothpaste noises". You just have to wipe out the inside of your helmet.

-J

Lowes had a good deal on a Lincoln 135 MIG so Christmas came early.

Now for the amateur question:

To weld in patch panels into my fenders do I put in flanges and weld from the inside of the fender then solder the front? Or do I do a butt weld from the front and grind down the excess?

I think the usual method is to butt weld. Some of the thinner panels take many small plug welds because a continous bead will warp the metal.

I did all mine as flange joints, then read I should have done butt joints. The theory was that parked in the sun, the thicker metal in the flange area expands at a different rate and might then show up. I haven't seen it happen though, so it may be less of an issue with these old heavy gauge fenders. Another problem of flange joints is that they can trap water and rust, so the seam needs good sealing. A flange joint is readily noticable from the backside.
Flange joints are more tolerant of cutting errors and are easier to clamp & weld. Butt joints take more skill - you have to be able to get the joint uniform, need a gizmo like this to hold the panels while welding, and have to be more careful about burn through, but the joint will be nearly undetectable when done right.

Thanks.

I'll got down to the junkyard and see if I can find some old sheet metal to practice on.