The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop My timing is retarded.

It seemed like a simple goal: Let's try and fine tune the timing. All I need is a screw driver and a timing light, how hard could it be?

Then, I looked online. The internet is an interesting thingy. You can find all sorts of information, both right and wrong and chances are, you won't be able to tell exactly what is right or wrong until you give it a try.

However, before trying much online, I just did the usual thing. I hooked up a tach, connected the timing light and fired it up. And of course, no timing BB shows up in the window. By the time I was done playing with it, I of course had no idea where I began or how to return it to where it was to begin with. To make things a bit more interesting, the timing light worked intermittently and then when it was working, it would flash normally and then throw in a burst of flashes just to confuse me.

Now, I had read online that it was easy to figure out which way to turn the distributor to advance or retard ignition timing. If revs go up, you are advancing the timing and if it goes down, you are retarding it. Problem is, if you go too far either way, it will slow down and obviously, from there, the opposite of each will both INCREASE revs! Thus making that piece of information somewhat useless. So, back to the interwebs I went. I needed to know exactly which direction to turn the distributor to advance or retard the ignition. In one thread where someone had asked that very question, nearly every other post contradicted the others! One would say CCW to advance, the next would say CW to advance. Amazing.

"Time it using the vacuum method" they said. A lot. Usually without ever telling what exactly the "vacuum method" is!
After hours of divining and separating out information, I decided to give the "vacuum method" a try. The questions that had to be resolved to get to this point were things like "Which way do you turn the distributor?", "Do you connect the vacuum gauge to the vacuum advance source or the windshield wiper source?" And another favorite:"Do you leave the vacuum advance hooked up or not?" And then there was, "Do you do it at idle or at 2000 rpm?".

In the end, I stuck the vacuum gauge to the manifold vacuum nipple, left the vacuum advance hooked up (discovered through trial and error that there was no vacuum there at idle) set my idle at about 500 rpm and watched the gauge. As far as I could tell, I was supposed to advance the dizzy until max vacuum was found and then back off 1".

That seemed like it should be easy enough. So, there I was with right at 20" on the gauge. Pretty good so far. Turned the distributor to advance the timing and the gauge changed exactly 0". Turned it the other way, same result. Only difference was that turning it too far either direction made the needle bounce around the 20 mark. Now, I had actually stayed home from church to deal with this as we had a truck club BBQ to attend and bringing the truck was kinda a necessity. So, with it becoming somewhat urgent to get this done, I set the dizzy where the needle was the least bouncy and tightened it down.

So, the wife and child got home from church and off we went to the BBQ and of course, there was pinging. I came prepared with a screw driver and made multiple stops to adjust the timing by retarding the timing, otherwise known as turning the distributor clockwise. The pinging seemed to slowly go away with each adjustment, except one, where it seemed to get worse. I kept turning the thing clockwise, mostly in small increments but it was kinda getting disturbing just how much I had moved it and yet still had pinging.

Today I drove the truck to work and once again, at work I retarded the timing and I have now MOSTLY gotten rid of the dreaded pinging but it is still there in high gear when applying throttle at higher road speeds.

At this point I feel as though the timing on this truck is darn near severely retarded.

I assume you have a window above the starter motor allowing you to see the flywheel.

Turn you engine over without starting it till the last cylinder in your firing order is TDC end of compression stroke.

Then with a strong flash light so you can see the timing mark turn the engine by hand very slow until a round circle appears. That is the timing mark. Paint that circle white. After paint dries you then should be able to see the mark with your timing light.

I had a post on timing. Here is a link that shows timing marks. Though your truck is later then mine this may help.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1109086

Yeah, I have seen the "BB". I saw it when I used it to set tdc for valve adjustment. It was even very shiny which means it should have showed up in the window, assuming the timing light was doing it's job. But no matter how much I moved the distributor, the bb was not visible. Maybe painting would help but it is also a possibility that this has the flywheel from the original 216 rather than the one for the 235 currently in the vehicle. Of course, were that to be true then I set the valves wrong too.

I may have another go with the timing light now that I have monkeyed with the distributer a bunch. However, it starts right up, runs well and the pingimg is almost gone so things can't be too bad I suppose.

I think that if your still experiencing pinging you are still to far advanced.

What type of ignition system do you have?

It is one thing to see the "O" when turning the engine by hand.

A total different story when the engine is running. Paint that "O".

Does your distributor have an octane adjustment? That should be set at O before you set your timing.

The truck has the standard, old ignition system. It also does have the octane adjuster. I couldn't tell where it was pointing but a bit more looking should make that possible. I did not set the octane adjuster to zero before setting timing.

I lock the selector down at zero and advance the distributor by turning the body

...link...

I have painted arrows on either side of the ball
...link...

Well, here is a little update. I retarded the timing a bit more and drive the truck to work with no pinging whatsoever.

So my question is, does it mater what is done with the octane selector thingy if you manage to get it timed without touching it?

I am content to leave things as they are at the moment, just hoping things are the way they should be. I may paint the bb white just to see what the timing light says but from what I understand, with today's fuels it has little to do with proper timing now.

I should mention I am running 90 octane, ethanol free gasoline in the thing.

Sounds like you got it

Check the manual, further tuning can be achieved using the mixture screw.

I don't think there is any need for the expensive gas
Others may disagree.

A timing light with a advance dial on the back will tell you where you end up.

No it doesn't matter. That feature allowed you to make small changes in timing to allow for differences in fuels and loads.

Octane Selector - Operator's Manual

For "maximum vacuum timing", I rotate the distributor in both directions from the maximum vacuum reading - then rotate the distributor back to the middle position. You could then drive and then adjust to a setting that is just before obtaining a "ping" (however, I don't fiddle with the middle-point setting).

the octane selector is an absolutely obsolete feature. I have never touched mine in 30 years. I am also wondering which spark plug wire you have the timing light hooked to. (its the front cylinder) In any case, if nothing else, turn the engine by hand until you see the BB lined up with the pointer in the window. And the proper cylinder is on compression, (if the #6 is up, you could just put the timing light on that cylinder, rather than turning it another revolution. Then remove the distributor cap, and loosen the distributor, turn on the ignition, turn the distributor clockwise until the points open and then close again, then turn the distributor counterclockwise until you just barely get a spark at the points. lock the distributor down, and turn off the ignition.(you probably know that last part, but just in case) and it should be almost dead on. At least you should be able to see the BB. if not your timing light is bad, which it sounds like it may be already. OH YEAH, there is absolutely no need to by high octane fuel, these engines barely have enough compression to run, much less cause a detonation problem. And there is no reason to use ethanol free gasoline, it won't hurt it at all. It may free up a bunch of crud that was in the tank and cause you a bit of trouble there. There might also be an issue with the rubber bits in the fuel system, (notice I said "MIGHT") but once you get all the old rubber stuff replaced, the alcohol won't cause any problems. but if you really want to waste your money, by all means go ahead.