The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Trouble with Title - not agree with VIN

I have a 1950 Chevy truck. Had it for about 15 years. Had it refurbished about 12 years ago. The engine had been replaced by the previous owner, but the title transferred without issue in Texas despite the fact that the engine number on the title (there is no VIN listed) and the one in the truck did not match. Gave the truck to my daughter in California. When she went to get the title transferred they wanted a VIN inspection. The VIN plate is no longer there (I can only assume that it was stolen or neglected in the rebuild process.) I'm not sure what good a VIN inspection will do since the VIN is not recorded on any documents that I've seen.
So now I am left with a title, body, and engine that do not agree and they tell me my only choice is to title this as a kit car. I personally know that this truck was all original when my brother bought it 25 - 30 years ago.
Does this mean that, due to my neglect in making sure the VIN tag was replaced and my brother's changing the engine without updating the title with the new number has completely denuded this wonderful truck of its value.
Does anyone know if an how I can get the title corrected? Thank you all in advance for your time and expertise.

That's highly likely. From what I hear about the process in California it would probably be easier for you to process a new VIN in Texas then transfer THAT to her in California. Every state has a method for resolving that problem. Your issue is not unique. It happens a lot because people change engines without retitling the vehicle. FWIW the number on the data plate wouldn't do you any good even if it was still there because it's not the same as the engine number (you advised the engine number is on the title). The number on the data plate is the Unit Serial Number, again no relationship to the engine number. There's another option that I personally have not used and that's contracting with a title bonding company. I have no clue what hoops you have to jump through if any. I've read where some folks love a bonded title and some had difficulty. Good luck. Keep in mind that asking the regulatory agency you'll be having to deal with is where you need to go for your best info. As I said every state has a method for resolving it since this happens every day.

About 40 years ago, I shipped a salvaged military M-151 Jeep from Okinawa to California as part of a PCS station change with the US Air Force. Somewhere along the way all the ownership paperwork was lost, stolen, misplaced, etc. I ended up doing the bonded title thing, and I believe the California DMV assigned a VIN number to the vehicle. The bond was for the appraised value of the vehicle, and I was required to keep it in effect for 3 years, with no way to sell the vehicle during that time. I purchased what was basically a title insurance policy from a company that also did real estate titles. I think the cost was about $300.00 back in the early 1970's.

I moved from Commiefornia back to Tennessee in 1980- - - -best thing I ever did!
Jerry

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=951683#Post951683

Try Donna

Move to Vermont. You don't need no stinkin' title!

I have just completed a bonded title on a 52 in Texas. I had to provide the following:
Bill of sale
Rubbing and picture of Vin plate
Surety bond
Letter of rejection from DMV.

If you go this route, make sure all names on the documents match exactly. The bonding company left off my middle initial and I had to get a revised bond. Bond had 1.5 x purchase price.
Good luck
David

So ...

You live in AZ now ?

Did the truck have an AZ title or did the Texas title you reference pass thru you " open " without you closing it out & having a title issued in your name ?

Whatever the last records show for the truck - that is what a state DMV goes by - if this particular truck is already in the California DMV database there is not much you can do.

Find the last valid title - transfer it into your name - then transfer it to whoever you want.

Some states go by the engine serial number if there is no VIN on the frame or firewall.

You can have a matching VIN plate made & then rivet it where it should have been if one does not exist.


Jim

Most all states require a visual VIN inspection when transferring an out of state title. That means a designated DMV rep must actually go and look at the VIN to make sure it matches the title in hand. If it doesn't there are many ways, some mentioned here, that you can get a clear title in your Daughter's name. California just makes it a lot more difficult than a lot of other states. Bonded Title is probably the safest way to go.

Texas titled vehicles by engine number until around 1954. It was common practice to change the engine number to match the vehicle. And of course this had to be done with factory replacement engines. We routinely bought short blocks and stamped the engine number on them to match the title. If that was how it was don back then, there is no reason to change the engine number. There is a form for correcting a title, but it can be a complicated procedure. Texas has a title only transfer where you only need a title and a bill of sale. What Texas is interested in is the $28 title transfer fee and the 6 1/4% sales tax. I was a licensed salvage dealer in Texas for many years, and Texas really doesn't care about vehicles that are not considered late model. All they want is the tax. When you bring an out of state vehicle into Texas, any state licensed inspector can verify the title against the vin. I am still a licensed inspector for commercial trucks. But if you do a title only, you don't need insurance or inspection. Once you get a title and if you want to put license on it, you need a safety inspection and insurance. For antique plates you don't need inspection or insurance, but you are very limited to how you can drive it.

Here is a list of forms available to get a Texas title. Most people make a more complicated thing than it really is.

http://www.txdmv.gov/forms

tag and title toolbox at sema san

Click on your state... it's a good place to start.

I see someone already posted the link to your state dmv too.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Also, sometimes it helps to have a lawyer to get the details right.

-W

Ok fellas,hope I dont get banned from here.but this is how we commifornians do it.wr buy a new vin tag from either chevys of the 40s or the truck shop nothing illegal there.then we have the vin thats on the title punched into our new tag and either bolt it back on.we have been,doing this,for a long time my brother works for the chp and tells,me that as long as there is no dmv history on the motor or vin you will be ok.but that if the motor comes back hot.you lost your truck no ands ifs buts or maybes.

I have bought vehicles from California that had title created. As stated before, If it is not in CA data system, there is no problem. It is actually simpler than Texas. However, If I buy a vehicle in California, I have to pay sales tax there unless I hire someone to move it out of the state. That is why many California trucks get auctioned off in Las Vegas. Otherwise buyers would have to pay tax in CA as well as their home state.

Ask your CHP buddy if its a felony in California to tamper, modify, create, a vehicle number to be used for vin or registration.


Stamping an engine number on a door post tag

It would be the prosecution's burden to prove criminal intent for a felony. Although CA has some unique laws, it is still a part of the USA. A federal case which just happened to be decided in CA is right on point. U.S. v. Goyal http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/12/10/08-10436.pdf

Ponch and John don't work for CHiPs no more. Canceled in 1983
Carl

All things considered, IMHO it''s of no interest to me in the least to try and even play in a gray area on this stuff. Life is complicated as it is without going out of the way. If the title ain't on the up and up from the start, I'd walk in the opposite direction and fast. If the owner can't prove up front the title is clear and I don't verify and buy a pig in a Polk, then shame on me.

Some years ago, when I was looking at buying my '46 project, the widow lady selling it didn't know her hubby had not cleared the title with the PO. She wanted to go the bonded route and that was a deal breaker, even though legal and above board Yada yada Yada. I insisted she had no deal unless the PO signed over the title to her and she in turn to me and ALL in front of a notary. It took several weeks, but worth it. The last thing I wanted was to spend 100's of hours and 1000's of $ only to have it all clouded in a potential "he said, she said" and some attorney collecting his next boat payment all because I was careless.

I made the mistake a few years ago of buying a 49 3800 5 window with no title. The old guy I bought it from said to take a VIN plate off one of my old parts pickups that had a title. Never considered that since it is illegal. I was told just to have the state HP come out and verify the VIN and make application. One problem, HP refuses to do this. It appears this thing can't be titled at all, in spite of various car people in this state telling me there is "nothing to it". I had got it as a possible project but is no point doing anything with it at all. I will never again buy something w/o a title. At least I didn't pay a bunch for it, is a bad deal.
Steve

I have bonded 3 vehicles, the first being Maters Cousin. That was a cake walk! The 2nd was a 59 Napco, some of the rules changed but still worked out o.k. The 3rd was the 58 G.M.C. F370. Things on that were a bit more fun! More hoops to jump through! But got it done! I got a feeling Iowa will keep making it harder and harder to get a bonded title till they wont allow it any more.

It's sad that states make things difficult or not at all, with a out with the old and in with the new attitude. Find out what your state law is then pursue that ol truck, car, bike. I got lucky the first time!

The other side of that coin is that if the state didn't exercise due diligence all a thief would have to do is home stamp an aftermarket tag and get a legal title after stealing your ride. Making it brain dead easy to get a title makes it too easy for potential thieves IMHO. A vehicle with a changed engine is understandable. One with no Data Plate raises a red flag to me. Why would anyone with legal intentions remove & dispose of it? Anyone who buys a vehicle with all identifying numbers removed is only making a thief's life easy.

My '38 came from ND. It never had a title. The HP wouldn't come to the farm so I loaded it on a trailer, took it to the DMV in Bismarck. I had the seller with me. They called a HP officer to come to the parking lot and do the verification. Turned out very easy to get the 1st title issued on this old truck.

I understand what your saying Tiny. I have ALL RESPECT of "Due Diligence" and know everything has a process. It seems, IMHO,they (the state) want to make it so difficult you won't even want to try. And probably, because of thieves, it has gone to the extreme it has.

Excluding (the stolen vehicle) if we cannot title, something that has a lost title, the supply of "project" vehicles will be way less
than what is currently available. And that is a small enough of a pond by itself! Once they are crushed, cut up or parted out that "project" is gone forever!

It sounds like you made out ok, I don't know what to think about my situation. I am 260 miles from Bismarck so don't really want to haul it down there, plus the old guy I bought it from didn't give me any kind of bill or sale, he was fairly elderly several years back. Wonder if he is even still alive. The DMV people in Devils Lake looked up the VIN and found no record. They told me just to have the HP verify the number and I could make application. The HP flat refused to even look at it, don't know if this is policy in the Devils Lake HP District or what. I am wondering also when North Dakota started requiring titles. My 2 ton I'm working on I think came into the state, the title from the farmer was dated 1972. I bought an old 51 1 ton at an estate sale that had a 59 dated title. I know the 46 Chevy fire truck we have here in town was bought in 53 according to the mayor whose dad was fire chief so the city has owned it since then. The title however is dated 1961, wonder if the title requirement came in around the late 50s or something. If that is the case the 49 in question maybe was never titled. Anyway I really don't know how to proceed, the young HP kid told me he might look at it if it was "all fixed, running, and everything working". Don't think that is right. No point arguing with the local HP, nothing good would come out of it. Thanks for the info, just don't think that will work in my case.
Steve

Exactly!!!!
not for two tiny (no pun) fasteners on my door post my truck could be gone and legally owned.






the O.P.'s truck has a title
just cannot pass vin inspection.

I may not be digesting all of this but since I am in Arizona and you are in Arizona, IF you have a title and it is properly signed by seller and notarized, if required, then you take the title to AZ MVD (use a satellite) and they will give a new title in your name. They don't want to see the truck or anything else. Keep your mouth shut when you are there and you are good to go legally. If the title is out of state, they still do not want to see it as of two years ago. Call a satellite DMV and ask. Don't go to the Gov't DMV. They will charge you and give you a license plate and they will follow up with insurance later. You can provide insurance proof or mark non-op. If you are trying to title it in another state, I don't know anything. If you do not have a title you will have to go salvage or bonded. (in AZ) A bill of sale from the owner may be helpful but don't offer it unless asked. As everybody knows it's tricky at MVD even though you are honest. We are all having fun here but the poster has not returned in over a week. RVMOORE: your problem in my above advice is explaining all to a new buyer why no VIN plate. But that AZ buyer will also have no trouble. Insurance people may visit the vehicle and want a tag. There are no states that would allow you to put on a store bought plate that you stamped to match some title/serial/engine number unless they were involved.
I have said here many times, never buy a vehicle without a title that matches a plate or motor number. If the seller says "all you have to do is..." you have him do it first. Anything else is a parts vehicle!!!! Pass on it. There is always a reason it has no title. Don't believe someone who says "the title is lost". Boloney, it's $4 here to get a duplicate IF you are the owner of record, have the vin number and show ID.

in California, the answer is Yes!

Get it back here, get it titled in AZ, sell it, and buy her another in CA. or give her the money.
P.S. Make sure the one you buy in CA. has a good title.

The thought occurs to me that this subject of titles comes up rather frequently. May be a sticky or tech tip section of the high and some low points of the subject would be helpful?

Roger that, but so many opinions, stories and remedies. Some folks get lucky, some go thru the bonded routine, some go illegal, some suffer and some actually get a title in the first place!
You know the rule Sparky, he who suggest a sticky is "stuck" doing it.

My suggestion would be to take this thread just as it is and use it as the sticky. The range of remedies here sums up the info most often posted and provides a place for someone to start their journey and decide for themselves.

The easiest would be for the OP to use the search function since this has been discussed MANY times. It matters not what state you are in the answer is the same.

I just got done trying to use the Search Function for a different issue, with out much success.
Perhaps we should create a sticky on how to use the Search Function in such a way as to find what we're looking for.
Carl

On the line where you have "My Stuff" & "User List" click the "Search" link. On the search page I specified General Truck Talk, the word "Title" to search for, specified the search only in the title, limited the search to the last year and got four pages of hits, including this thread. Not difficult.

This is off topic but, the key to the search engine is set date parameters. It is default set to 'newer than 1 week'.

Depends what you mean by "value".

It sounds to me you're more interested in the sentimental value of the truck being in the family. In that case it matters not what kind of title it has.

Additionally, when you drive the truck, take it to shows, have friends over to look at it or work on it, no one can tell the difference.

If you are concerned about resale value, then you probably will lose some money when the time comes. As previously suggested, bring it home to AZ and sell it there with the current legal title.

He has a title (Texas)

His daughter is trying to register it in California.
The vehicle needs a VIN inspection/verification to register and transfer title. This is the problem.

VIN inspection is required when registering the vehicle.
It is not unique to classic vehicles

I purchased a new vehicle in a neighboring state and needed a vin inspection on a new vehicle.

The VIN has to match the title.


When you purchase a truck for a project it is a good idea to make sure you have a good title and also register it before you invest in restoring it. Once you have it titled AND registered then you can inop it if its not running while restoring it.

Check the rules for your state.

In this case, it may not be a good idea to move the truck to a third state if that state will also require a vin inspection/verification to transfer the title.