The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Best Place to get 54-62 235/261 Engine Rebuild Kits

I am trying to get by as cheap as possible why still having a no-compromise stock rebuild. So I have a few questions because in the past, I have always just let the engine shop that does the machine work order the kit for me.

1) Is it really necessary to change the cam in most cases?

2) Are there differences in quality on certain items and what should I be looking for?

3) I have always been careful about labeling the push rods, but if you were given this engine in a box, no labels, aren't they fine if I roll them across a flat surface and there are no anomalies?

Pretty much interested in anything you guys have to say about the direction to go. I am seeing master kits from $550 to $750 and wonder if there is a better way.

I like to have the machine shop check each cylinder, hone, and bore if needed, clean and magnaflux the block and head, put hardened parts in the head, make sure it doesnt need to be decked, etc. Then take it from there.
Thanks for any help, ideas you may have.

1) Yes. You are building an engine to be as-new. Don't scrimp here. If you go with the old one, you will forever second guess that decision.

2) I don't know, but my Machinist does. (I have one that I trust.)

3) No need to worry about mismatching push rods. Just make sure both ends are nice a shiny, and that they are straight.

If you want to save some money, skip the hardened seats and go with stainless steel exhaust valves.
Carl

I'm not trying to cut corners, just get some REAL information on engine rebuilding I might have missed. I have 8 of these things to rebuild, so if I am missing something, now would be a good time to get all the expert advice I can get. In my lifetime, I have rebuilt only 5 of them, so Im doing the math and thinking, maybe I better ask.

Deve,
Hope you find someone who will come along and tell you something which you already know in such a way that it sounds like your idea.
Carl

Check out Summit for parts. They have everything and they have a price match.They won't be beat on price.

Carl my problem is my memory is so short, that might be very true! Eric, if you do a search on Summits site for rebuild kits for the 235, nothing comes up. I tried several different ways and then discovered only three sources for engine rebuild kits...

cleggengine.com
northerautoparts.com
ebay - but that appears to be cleggengine.com too
rpmmachine.com

Some of them look like retailers that get their stuff from Clegg and resell it looking at prices. However, Northern is the cheapest so far at about $550 for the Master kit.

NAPA sells master kits in the range of money you already know, but they also sell smaller kits starting at around $170 depending on what you want to replace.

Well there you go Deve. I knew you would find someone in total agreement with you. Did you walk by a mirror and the light bulb came on?
Thank you for digging up all of those sources for 235 kits. I have never had any success finding much by searching, and have relied on my machinist to order them, and pay his markup.
Carl
I only poke because I care.

I am hesitant to take anything to a machine shop unless I know I need machine work done. Once they have your engine, they are going to want to do it all and buy parts from the cheapest source they can find and mark them up. Taking a head in isn't a bad idea if you don't have machine tools. I worked a lot of heads in the 50's, 60's and into the 70's. Checking the surface on a head is nothing more than laying a straight edge across it. To check for cracks, I plugged the water outlets and laid a head on a table, chamber up. I filled the water jacket with Diesel and let it set a day or so. If the head is cracked, Diesel will find its way into the combustion chamber.

My thing is really GMC and Y-Block Ford, but Chev isn't that much different. I used to buy NOS valves on eBay until quite a few years ago, I realized I had a couple of hundred valves and will never use them. I still see lots of valves on eBay.

To check valves guides, buy yourself a cheap small hole gauge.
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/m...amp;displayMode=grid&sortBy=none/asc They can be bought much cheaper on eBay. And then a mike. Modern machine shops tend to try get stem clearances too close and then they seize when they got hot. If your guides are within spec, leave them alone. If they are bell mouthed, they need to be replaced or knurled. Knurling and then reaming to spec used to last 50,000 miles with the sorry oil we had. If you have your seats ground, make sure they don't get them too wide. I see a lot of seats way too wide and then valves burn in no time.

Not all blocks need to be bored. Lay a ring on top of a piston and measure the gap at various points. If the taper is within specs, hone it and install a set of cast iron rings. If the taper is not within spec, then consider a hone job.

Cam and lifters wear in together. Don't mix them up. The push rods don't care where they are at. If the cam hasn't flaked or galled in all these years, it will still go a long time.

I guess my main point is that I have seen big bucks go into rebuilds by machine shops and they wind up in failure because they just don't give these old engines enough clearances.

50 years ago, we only replaced what needed replacing because we had no money. And we ran all the clearances at the wide end of the tolerance. And we had practically no catastrophic failures.

When rebuilding my '38's 216 I decided to reuse the original cam. It was still within spec and I've heard a LOT of stories about the cheap chinese cams many folks sell these days. I got my rebuild kit from Kanter because of their lifetime warranty on their engine parts.

re. cam. How many miles are on it? A new cam and lifters will run you approx. $200 plus shipping.
Just remember new cam = new lifters too.
Measure and inspect the cam bearings too.... They aren't that expensive but are a pain to get to once the engine is assembled.....

re. machine shop. These old engines can build up all kinds of grit, grime and crud both internally and externally, a good block cleaning/dip is highly recommended.
If the block has never been bored, odds are it'll need it. Measure twice and cut once.....

Odds are even higher that the head will need attention. I've only worked on two Stovebolt 6's and both required new exhaust valves & seats. If you replace the valves might as well replace the guides too....

re. gasket kit. I've used 2 different master rebuild gasket kits, Fell-Pro and Best Gasket. I like Best Gasket much better and they are priced just about the same.

Good luck
Dave

Great information. Remember those who haven't weighed in yet, the question is really about management of unknowns. I have no idea the condition of these engines. They weren't in working trucks. One of them, the one I am starting with, I found out today it has hydraulic lifters. But three of the lifters retaining springs are missing and two of the caps are gone. Also, the head and oil pan were removed before I got it. Not sure what route to take on the hydraulic issue.

I fully expect out of the 5 engines that are sitting in my shop, a few of them may have bad engine blocks (all are 58-62 models), THEN how many heads will be any good. They are all 848's.

The plan is to make them really top notch and sell them. Like I did this one: http://devestechnet.com/Home/Project1954235

I sold that one for 3k about 10 years ago and the new owner still emails me thanking me for it. This first one though, is going to be my test engine. I need it for testing my HEI mod and a few other things. Comments are so appreciated. I am alone all day in my shop and feel strongly that many heads are better than one when it comes to some of the more intricate things. Thanks guys!

Done my '61 261 a few years ago in the following manner. Dissembled the entire engine, labeled all parts and surgically cleaned each. Visually checked for abnormalities miked for wear and compared with wear specs in o/h manuals. Made a spreadsheet listing necessary and nice to have replacement parts on the left edge and vendor names and quotes along the top edge. Surprisingly I found that kits were the most expensive way to go and Car Quest had best prices for most pieces.

Deve, am also rebuilding a 235 for a 48 3600. I followed your link to your site and noticed the full pressure oil filter mod. Question - how much clearance do you have between the filter and frame? Is it possible for contact, if you get after the engine and it torques over? Maybe I should ask this way, what is distance from block to outside of filter, so I can check clearance before I take it out?

There is lots of room between the filter and the frame. That said, I will tell you tomorrow when I am at the shop exactly how much. I am very sure its not an issue. I even measured how the inner fender would impact before doing this. No impact. Measurements tomorrow!

I wrote up my complete 235 rebuild HERE

Unless you have (and can PROPERLY USE) a set of mic's then take it to the shop for the basic clean/inspect/flux. crenwelge missed A LOT of important steps like journal wear/out of round (no way to cheap that out... need to mic them) and maganflux for stress cracks that are not near the water jacket (like the cylinder wall, studs holes, bearing caps)and knurling a $5 valve guide?? Who does that on a rebuild?

I used clegg for a master kit and I was quite happy with it. My total rebuild was just under $1500 (parts and shop). Add in another $200 for misc parts (dist rebuild, fuel pump, vacuum advance/line), paint, misc. a DIY rebuild should be less than $1800-$2000. If you just do a top/bottom end then less than $1k on a known good motor is doable. Since I didn't know the history of the motor, I consider it a good investment to pay up front for a rebuild.

I did get semi ripped off on cam bearings.. I had the shop order them and while the price for the bearings was the same as I would have paid, the $15 UPS shipping doubled the price. A walk to the local FLAPs would have saved me some money.

If you are going to offer these engines to sell, you need to take them to a machine shop, have them cleaned, documented and painted. Especially if you know a machine shop that is competent on 60 year old machines. Buyers of complete engines demand that these days.
The way I fix them lasts a long time. I refreshed a lot of engines in the 60's and don't remember having a failure. But if these are blocks that have sat around for a while and you want to sell them, going the route you went 10 years ago is the only way to go.

Allen: From the mounting bosses at the engine block, 5-1/2 inches to the furthest part of the round filter. This leaves 1-5/8" away from the frame. Plenty of room. If I were doing my bracket over again, I would make it set in closer to the engine by making those 3 standoffs a bit shorter, but this worked great. Hope that helps.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Yep, gonna have to go the full route with these engines, no compromise. Expensive, but its good insurance for the next guy who ends up with it. Its not getting any cheaper to rebuild one of these engines, thats for sure!

One just can't beat Rock Auto for rock bottom prices and the parts are from top providers like Sealed Power and Fel-Pro


Main bearings $39.00
Rod bearings 30.00
Pistons 180.00 Set
Rings 35.00
Ex. valve 2.12 @
Int. valve 3.85 @
Complete Gasket Set 46.00

Thanks Deve, and agree...plenty room.