The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Overdrive relay clicking?

On the road in my 56 3100, 235, column shift w/overdrive I get a clicking sound whenever I accelerate that sounds like it's on the firewall in the area of the OD relay. I can't pin it down for sure but I think that is where it comes from. It is there at all times when I am accelerating unless I really push down hard, then it stops until I get back to normal acceleration. It's a steady clicking that happens both in and out of OD, warm or cold. I'm pretty sure (but not positive since I can't be under the hood while I'm driving) it sounds electrical, like points clicking, but I find nothing in the shop manual that relates to this problem, and I'm stumped. I had this problem a long time ago, and I removed and cleaned the solenoid and replaced the seal per advice received in the transmission etc. forum, but it started up again shortly thereafter and it just doesn't stop. It's not terrible, but it is annoying, and I know something is wrong. Just don't know what it is. The wiring seems all according to schematic and the KD switch must be functioning since the OD works just fine but --- what??? Ever heard of this (other than me)? Any experience with this at all would be helpful.

Dale

Might be a ground issue. Check the connection at the KD switch and at the governor. Could also potentially be an internal problem in the governor itself, as there is a contact switch inside it.

Any idea how I might test the governor switch to see if it's working? The wire connections seem to be ok, but I probably should test that too just to make sure. Thanks

I would say the governor itself is working properly since you do get overdrive. he top of the governor is removable without taking the whole governor off, it's just 4 screws. You should be able to check the switch that way.
Another thing you might consider, if it all checks out, would be to run a ground wire from the transmission housing to the main chassis ground. I ran one on mine, simply used a length of 10 gauge mounted to one of the governor cap screws, then run to the main grounding point on the frame.

I'm guessing the problem is with the governor. I just read an article on the BW OD that indicates in overdrive there should be some engine braking effect, not completely free wheel when you let off the gas. I hadn't thought about that and didn't know that before, but now, since I know I am free wheeling in OD with no evident braking effect, that alone would indicate the system is not functioning correctly. I will keep testing the system electrically for either ground problems or part failure, but it clearly looks like this not going to be an easy fix, especially for an electrical greenhorn like me. I'll remove the governor cap to look for what? and also do the ground wire. Thanks

Oil will seep into the governor. There is a drain hole which should be on bottom. I discovered this when mine quit working and I found it full of oil. I had the drain on top. This may or may not be your problem. When you pull the cover the contacts are the first thing you see. Clean them.

You can test the governor with your multimeter by chucking it in a hand drill motor. Also, you can check the operation of the solenoid circuit by disconnecting the governor wire and grounding it to the frame.

There are two coils in the solenoid, a pull in coil and a hold in coil. If the hold in coil is bad it will cause a problem as you describe. Remove the solenoid and test it on the bench. Ground the base and apply 12V power to the #4 terminal. If it snaps in and stays in, it is OK. If it wants to bounce it could have oil in it but is likely defective.
Fred

Thanks everybody --- I'm on my way -- I will work on the governor first,
then on to the solenoid. I am familiar at least with the solenoid since I have had it off and did disassemble thoroughly inspect and clean it --- but I didn't bench test it. It could very well be the problem and if it does "bounce" then I think we may have found the culprit. I do have a spare solenoid I bought long ago when I first started on the problem, but never used it.I will tackle the g first though just because I have never really looked into it, and then get back and let you know what I think I see.

Dale

If you do end up needing a new solenoid, Fifth Avenue has them.

If the OD solenoid does show any problems, possibly take a look at your voltage regulator. It may be, that upon acceleration, the voltage from the generator is going up, and the voltage regulator is trying to compensate. If it is defective or mal-adjusted it may not be reacting properly (constant on-off).

Longbox55, thanks for the OD parts link, good resource.
don

Just a quick update - the relay clicking is gone! I changed out the solenoid - I had bought a used one some time ago when I was having this problem. I did not use it since the clicking went away for a little while after cleaning my original solenoid. I'm still having the free wheeling problem though so I strongly suspect the governor is responsible for that problem. I have ordered a rebuilt one from Herm. It seems governors are not in ample supply anywhere, and it does not look like anyone is re-popping them,at least from what I could tell. I contacted Herm last week and he has been most helpful with both information and troubleshooting tips on the solenoid etc. He seems to really know these puppies. Anyway, thanks again everyone, I'll keep you posted after the governor transplant which I suspect will happen next week. Dale

Anybody know if the gear on the governor is considered the "long gear" or the "short gear". Apparently there is a difference maybe between versions for different cars and you need to know to order one with a replacement gear. Thanks, Dale

Dale if you don't know about it, I have all the Borg R10 Overdrive manuals available here:

http://devestechnet.com/Home/HowTo

Thanks for the great information Deve - makes me a little more inclined to go further on my OD troubleshooting. After reading I find little on swapping out the governor. I guess I will have to remove it to measure the gear to make sure they include the right length gear. Was hoping to not take it out until I got the replacement, but I'm stuck in between for now since they need to know for sure so they can finish my order and get it shipped. Was hoping someone might know the right length just off hand so I could remove and replace all at the same time when the replacement gets here. Thanks again for your great resource! I will be using it. Dale

Note: I believe the "gear" they are talking about is more correctly known as the "pinion" part of the governor assembly. At least that's what I gather from my readings. Still need to know what the length is, so I'll remove and at least measure tomorrow. (I'd do it today but my grandson is here today so we do what he wants to do.)

Well, with the help of my (four year old) grandson we got the governor out. It is the "short" gear (pinion) at about 3/8" compared to the "long" gear which I'm told is more than an inch long. So I'll just wait now until the ordered part gets here and get it all back together again. I am going to do the grounding wire as suggested earlier though to the main body ground. Still not sure I understand the "free wheeling" part and when (at what speeds) that is normal and when it is not, but that's a different problem from what I started with.

Dale

Dale,
I believe the "long" gear is for a Ford application. I have several of both in my collection. The governor is the same be it Ford, Studebaker, Rambler, GM, or whatever. Some have a cast iron body others have an aluminum body. The difference is the gear. It just has a small spring clip that holds it on the shaft. If the governor that Herm sends you has the wrong gear, just swap it out with the one on your unit. There is a completely different governor on the Saganaw OD trans, it even has a different size mounting hole. This won't be an issue in your case.
The trans should not freewheel when you let off the gas over 30 mph. By that I mean if it goes into freewheel and doesn't engage the OD you have a problem. It will freewheel for a couple of seconds when you let off the gas before it engages the OD. You should be able to feel it shift into OD. When the OD is working correctly you should hear a click as you slow down and approach a stop, this tells you that it has shifted out of OD into direct.
Fred

Hey Dale! Ask your grandson.. what would be more fun, getting hung up on a hook, or learning all about overdrive transmissions? My mudda hung me up on a hook.. ONCE! (stolen from Johnny Dangerously, the movie). Just kidding. I have them too. Be careful about being too nice.. someday he will want your truck!

Deve, my grandson owns this truck! Even at 4 he stands at the wheel and blows the horn. His favorite place to be.
I just got my replacement governor and ready to put it in. Quick question though -- there is no gasket needed? Looked like some silicon was on the old one when I removed it. It never did leak so I guess I could just apply a little silicon to this one too? Or does it even need it?

Dale
Later note: Used a little silicon and after installing took it out for a test drive, no difference in driving so far - will go a little farther tomorrow so I can speed it up and see how the OD is responding to up and down speeds.

Cool! I do not know first hand much about the OD. I have one on my project, tested it out before I tore it down for restoration, but I just KNEW I would need the documentation, so when the chance to get original manuals came up, I was all over it. There ARE people here that are very knowledgeable, so keep asking your questions. They will surely be answered.

Well, it seems the more one expects regarding OD performance, the deeper lies the problem, and also the solution. Having tested and replaced or repaired most of the external components, but still experiencing full-time free wheeling in OD, I once again referred to the shop manual for OD cleaning and maintenance on pages 7-25 and 7-26. There it indicates free wheeling at all speeds while in OD is likely the result of cam roller retaining spring(s) weakness. To me, a willing to try, but still non-mechanic, that means the whole OD transmission requires disassembly, cleaning and reassembly in order to get it right. That begs the question of not only my limited know how and capabilities, but also the availability of internal OD transmission parts should any parts, like these springs, be found so worn as to be defective. At this point seems a bit daunting. Maybe time for professional help -- But also, does this then move the problem of such rebuilding to another (not electrical) forum?

you might find help via the driveline forum, but might also PM rfs56trk above, who's knowledgeable on them

Bill