The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk rust FROZEN brake drum and apple cider vinegar

Hey Fellas

My 1938 front brake was rusted solid and no coaxing would free it. Lots of PB Blaster and releasing the wheel cylinder and she still was as stubborn as an Arkansas mule.
So.....I had a 1940 same situation and decided I'd try molasses or vinegar dip.

I got 4 gsllon jugs of apple cider vinegar from Walmart at $4 each and a 10 x 8x10 tubby to soak my drum in.
I loosened the 4 nuts on my brake backing plate and wrestled the whole assemble off. I set a brick on bottom to rest the hub on.

I turned drum in dip every 4 hours and overnight. The next day they slid apart.

My son and I made a YouTube video to post soon.

Some people recommend baking soda wash after to neutralized acids.

Drum #2 went into dip today to see if she's still active.

Must be in 65 degree plus air and it does smell like vinegar. I covered my dip with trash bag and old jacket on top

Dean in Arkansas

I go with the distilled white vinegar as an affective, safe, and inexpensive medium. Less than $2.00 per gallon at Sam's Club.

De-Rusting with Vinegar Tech Tip

yeah, why waste good apple cider vinegar?
oh ... wait, at $4 a gallon that's actually distilled white vinegar with caramel color and "apple essence" added [whatever that is]

Denny, if you find an apple cider vinegar [real or synthetic] with a pH above 3, it ain't done yet a solution of 5% acetic acid [any "table" vinegar] is about pH 2.5-3 no matter the flavor

vinegar is corrosive, the higher the acid level [table=5%, pickling=7%, horticultural=10%] the more corrosive - if you use vinegar on metal, make sure you rinse it VERY well immediately after, get any trace out of any crevasses, and yes, using baking soda will help, but make sure you rinse any of that out as well .... also stand back, vinegar-metal reactions create hydrogen gas, and mixed with baking soda it makes rocket engines

vinegar makes a good electrolyte for electro-plating, dissolving the material to be deposited, a better electrolyte for removing rust is water and sodium carbonate [washing soda], which won't eat the good metal left on your parts .... use the electrolytic derusting tip

Bill

I use white vinegar to throw all my old bolts off of a parts truck. After a couple of days run them under water and a small hand brush rinse it off. If they need a little more I throw them back in. Other wise I throw them in a bucket of water and some baking soda to neutralize the vinegar. Then I bring most of it to a local plating shop and have them zinc plated. Many of them look like brand new. I had about 2 1/2 gallons of nuts and bolts that cost me between $25-$30.

I did find out what not to put in vinegar. I had a beautiful rear view mirror made of pot metal or aluminum. After it was in for a couple of days, much of it had disintigrated and formed into a huge foam ball on top of the vinegar.

When I've had corroded stuck brake drums, I've heated them all around with a propane torch. Big flame. The drum expands more that the innards and they have always loosened up.

those chem students should study up on acetic acid, which is all vinegar is - any concentration of 5% acetic acid will be about pH 2.5-3 .... normal commercial pickling vinegar is 7%, available at most stores around here, and what I've been using in electroplating experiments horticultural vinegar [actually up to 20%] is probably not common at most garden stores, but is a specialty "organic grower approved" weed killer

look at cider vinegar that sells for $4 a gallon, and at Wallys place, there are numerous 'generic' cider vinegars that are white vinegar with "approved" additives

water and washing soda are as cheap or cheaper than vinegar and with the addition of minimal electric current do the job better, electrolysis takes off the rust without affecting the underlying metal [as does phosphoric acid], and a similar acting organic acid would be tannic acid, widely used in artifact conservation

Bill

Denny Graham can u delete your hijack replies to my thread?

I have video evidence on YouTube of the process working. I loosened three front wheel hub drum combinations. Further ~ three other people reported "using" vinegar as an agent in posted replies to my thread > ergo...it works.

I welcome u to go post it own THREAD about a SOlUTION to rust and not some egobased demeaning reply to mine

Your opening comments are insulting and unnecessary. Your next reply to Bill is offensive. You can make a point without being ugly and nasty to people. I looked in the galleries 16-29 1930-40 1941-47 for your truck what is it you drive?

I thank Bill and the others for being supportive and respectful.

I also respectfully request you not add any other comments to this is thread. And request the moderator to delete them if you do.

easy Dino, he's just being him, I think everyone on the thread is aware that our tech tip section has a page about using vinegar as a rust remover, and molasses as well [and maybe even Coke, which contains phosphoric acid] .... I take his comments as saying there's better acids to use than vinegar, no harm, no foul, just chatter, he prefers Phosphoric acid, I prefer electrolysis, the same comments show up in every discussion of vinegar for derusting

Bill

And no one has answered the question about the molasses to be used in rust-removal (this might now be in the Low-buck rust removal Tech Tip ):

light, dark, blackstrap, treacle, sulphured, or unsulphured.

I have always believed the best use of molasses is to make rum.

Dean, Bill (red58) is correct.....Denny is just being Denny. He is a wealth of knowledge and information. Denny has rebuilt things we've only dreamed about on these AD trucks and the results look brand new. I wouldn't be too quick to judge or burn a bridge before you cross it. Just sayin......

I like Tim's idea for molasses.....you might need that rum after trying to get these brake drums loose.

Tim

Denny's post is informative and can relate to the original post. Lighten up Fancis.

I agree with Dean, the post was high jacked! Dean believes he has came upon something that works and has a video of it. Denny has all but said Dean is full of BS. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't, give Dean a chance to prove it!! Don't bash his thread!!!

Lighten-up, everyone.

Dean's first post was informative and interesting. I am not going to criticize anyone.

Maybe the appropriate response would have been to congratulate Dean and thank him.

And also maybe post a link to Stovebolt.com "Rust Removal" Tech Tips.

You got it bud, I'll add your name to my do not respond list
and ya won't have to sweat my disturbing you again.
dg

ADpickup & Dino, folks don't "own threads" here, the forum archives do, and there has been no "hijacking" or "bashing" in this thread, the 'bolt is a discussion forum, where various opinions are expressed, Denny was pointing out that it's the acid that does the stripping, and the information he had, indicated cider vinegar wasn't as acidic as white vinegar [distilled vinegar] .... to which I added some correction, as I'm wont to do with Denny [and for anyone who doesn't know, a good part of my career has been making apple cider vinegar, "for the health of it"]

as Tim points out, folks aren't bashing Dinos use of the technique, just maybe rambling too much .... cabin fever probably, but it's a good thing to have various reactions to posts here that folks will stumble upon weeks, months, years down the road when researching things

Bill