The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop primer?

I primered my truck the other day. I didnt use the gun cause my air compresor is really weak. So i primerd my 64 chevy truck with cans. Im thinkin that aint the way to go but im not tryin to be perfect with this project. She is my daily driver. I just want her not to rust. I plan on sanding her down later on cause she has quite abit of dingers in her but like i said im not goin all out on her. She aint gonna be in the shows just my daily driver.

Rattle can primer is porous and will not prevent rust. If you get any moisture on the surface and the rattle can primer is the only thing protecting the metal, it will rust.

If you buff it out with some paintable rubbing compound, and then hit it with some clear coat the same brand as your primer, it will look really good, and be protected!
Boo

Isn't something like Dupont DP-90 or some other primer/sealer the only kind of primer that is weather-safe?

Rattle-can primer is probably better than nothing, especially in more humid areas of the country where even sitting inside an enclosed garage will end up flash rusting.
I'm spoiled, I'm in a dry climate.

But I've been told you can use spray can primer so you can work on your project and block sand to see your low spots, but then you'll have to go over it again with good primer prior to paint.

Primmer spray cans might work is your going paint it right away, but if it is going to be a while before it is painted. Forget it. It is like not having anything on it. I was sand blasting my cab a little bit a time and I would primmer each section I did. Looks like I did not put anything on it.

well i plan on using a gun with mine and i have found a heavy duty off road rustolium paint that seems to work real well. Can any one tell me if they have had problems with it.

Has anyone ever used ZERO RUST for a body primer?

Ham,
ZERO RUST has been used by a number of people as the direct to metal seal coat successfully. A couple of provisos if I may. View ZR as just that, the coat to seal the steel. That is it's design function and that's what it does best.

The ZR needs to go to FULL CURE before doing anything over it as it needs that time to toughen up so it won't react with subsequent products and more importantly all the shrinkage will take place before the finish work over it happens.

Figure 30 days for full cure. And avoid over applcation.....

Now, once all that is done you can do a scuff sand and build your sandable system on top of the ZR. ZR doesn't sand well and will only load paper. Plus, the more you sand into that film, the more you reduce it's ability to protect the substrate. Most of the automotive sandable primers are going to end up on the floor when you block for flat anyway so use it for what it was designed.

Bruce Palmer
Zero Rust

I saw an episode of American Hot Rod where Charlie sealed the body of a car before the body work was done. This is in a closed environment. Maybe this is some sort of metal prep? It seems like if you do that you would be just grinding and sanding all the sealer off. They actually spread body filler over the whole car and then sanded it off. What is the sealer/metal prep product he used and what was the reason?

Joe,
You let the Zero Rust shrink into the irregularities in the surface of the steel and it then becomes the surface. Your automotive system will have a high build sandable primer surfacer that is the product that will be block sanded to get rid of highs and lows. Just a light scuff of the ZR will ge the primer stuck.

Call me if you'd like and I'll give you a couple of good sources of info on all this. 800-725-4960

Bruce Palmer
[email protected]

Kevin, that was epoxy primer. They sealed the bare metal up right away and then did their body work over it. The key is to not sand through that protective layer to the bare metal while doing your filling and blocking.

Thanks Tony! I will have to check into epoxy primer next time I'm in the paint store.

Anyone dipped there cabs? my cab is off and I was thinking of having it dipped before I begin working it, to strip off the old paint, old bondo, rust and you name it. I just wondered what that would cost and where to have it done in So Cal.?
Any ideas?

I've had bodies and cabs dipped and have also had them blasted. I prefer having them dipped. I pay $500 for bare cab and $90 for each additional part(fender, door, hood, etc...). Before it is dipped, it is baked at 600 degrees for 12 hours to bake off old paint, undercoat, and seam sealer. Experience has taught me that there is a lot of rust lurking under that old, brittle seam sealer. Blasting can warp panels if not careful, and there are areas that are very difficult to reach with the blaster. I can be cheaper to have it blasted, or do it yourself, but then you have lead-based paint dust blowing around and such. For the $1000 it costs to dip, it is worth every penny to me. While the body is being dipped, I work on the chassis and driveline, usually having it done by time the sheetmetal returns(4-6 weeks).

Just my $.02 worth....

Andy

if you mean the rustolium INDUSTRIAL paint, I can tell you it works great. I used a wire wheel in my drill to get all the crud off of my 71 frame and then painted it (with a brush!!) with 2 coats of the industrial rustolium paint(I used the aluminum color) . IT has been painted for 6 years now, kept outside, driven like a truck should be, and the frame still looks great. If I would have known to prep with ospho back then I'm sure it would look like the day I painted it. But it does have a few discolorations due to oil, exaust, and of course a few rust stains have peeked through here and there, but overall it looks great.
click the following link to my site for attached pic!

http://users.adelphia.net/~popdes/1971_gmc.htm

Epoxy primer designed for automotive undercoats or paints is the way to go.

I have to say wanting "just a daily driver" paint job doesn't mean you have to go to the bottom of the barrel with Rustoleum wheel barrel paint.
Mordacai and everyone else, please understand I am not knocking you or your truck. There IS a place for all these products either IMRON, ZeroRust, and Rustolium. I come from a different frame of mind for a number of different reasons. The infomation I offer is simply that, information from another point of view.

There are many super easy to apply quality products available at budget prices made by REAL automotive paint companies.

If I wanted "just a daily driver" paint job I would sand it good with 220 or so apply a "value line" epoxy like PPG's OMNI and then top coat it with OMNI single stage urethane paint. WHAM BAM, no sanding between primer and paint, no waiting months to be sure of no reactions, just follow the recommendations on the tech sheets supplied by PPG.

You could do the same with other brands, S-W has a nice enamel primer sealer for even less than the epoxy (though not as good) and they have a single stage Urethane paint or only about 100 bucks a sprayable gallon in any color. This is a TRUE acrylic urethane paint. I had many customers who used this system or a little higher quality epoxy or urethane sealer on logging trucks, cement trucks and the like with great success. Heck, I had guys use it on cars and trucks that actually saw some car shows.

You really don't need to work so hard. I see this all the time on the forums as well as I saw it as a paint rep. Don't feel bad not knowing it. I saw truck shops who painted fleets of trucks with goofy procedures such as sand blasting a tractor, lacquer priming it, sanding it (holy crap, can you imagine hand sanding a 25 ft long grader!) then painting IMRON over it! What a mess, crappy durability AND a ton of work, it was a loose-loose procedure.

Click on the following links and go to the "Fleet refinishing" systems available for the tractor/trailer fleets that roam the highways of America. These multi $million (sometimes multi hundred $million or even $Billon) fleets like COKE, UPS, all way down to small companies with three or four pieces of equipment trust systems like these to protect their investments.

DuPont and NASON
Sherwin-Williams, Refinisherselect, Western, Dimension
Martin Senour (Sherwin Williams pro...rts stores) , Cross/FIRE, Econobody, MSU

PPG, OMNI

Instead of trying to figure out what will work with what, just use a system that is used by the people who want "just a daily driver" paint job on their $100,000 truck or trailer.

These systems are easy to apply being you sure don't want your truck or trailer sitting in a shop instead of on the road making money. There are ways to pull off some amazingly nice looking paint jobs (ever see a shabby COKE truck?) with a mininum of effort and money too.

All you need to do is fix the dents, spot prime those areas, then sand the whole thing with 220 or so. Seal the whole thing and paint it, it is that easy.

We are talking budget prices with the OMNI, Cross/FIRE, NASON stuff, but just a few bucks more will get you some AMAZING stuff.
Systems for the IMRON line from DuPont, Delta line from PPG, Genisis line from S-W or Prism line from M-S offer some almost bullit proof durablity. We are talking painting a cement truck and being able to wash it with "Reversacrete" an acid solution that removes DRIED concrete!!

They have sealers what are unbelievably tough, I am talking you can barely scrap it off with knife! Not only that they cover up a world of sins from poor preparation. They have to be, sanding a 45ft long trailer is just not going to be done with the same finesse as your average car. The products used have to make up for some of that lack of proper preperation.

These products may not cost as much as you'd think. They are priced for a VERY competitive market, truck fleets. To get the business at a manufacturer or fleet making or maintaining hundreds or thousands of trucks, tractors, trailers, or other pieces of equipment means BIG money to the paint companies. Because of this there are many products that have little profit left in them to be competitive with the other paint manufacturers. That is good for YOU, lower prices.

I have seen some of these "expensive" products beat the living pants off the "less expensive" products on paper, in real numbers simply because they needed less product (higher solids) for the job and less labor (read that more user friendly) to apply, thus cheaper.

I had one manufacture of utility boxes (the beds on pickup trucks with the cabinets on the sides) that we "moved them up" from a "value line" paint that cost half as much per gallon to the top of the line paint because you needed less coats to cover. Less paint,less labor, less cost.

You could even check colors for price. S-W Genisis for instance has some pretty high cost colors like certain oranges in the cheapest price range with whites. The reason being these colors are used by some big nationwide account and they want to stay competitive so no one steals the business from them.

I know I went down a number of different roads in this post but it was all to explain why you don't need to be so cheap when painting "just a daily driver" paint job.

^^
I was just kinda commenting on how good that particular paint has held up. IT is an Industruial Rustolium that I got at a professional supply house . It had a label I've never seen before, I went in there asking about a good paint to put on with a brush that's very affordable(Cheap). They told me that they have just the thing, a paint that's designed just for tractors. They said all you had to do was sand to bare metal and brush it on. It's self leveling and when you do large sides and supports of a tractor that you won't know it wasn't sprayed on.

There were only a handful of colors, Black, Dark Green, Orange, Yellow, and Aluminum colored. There might have been another 1 or 2 colors, but I don't really remember as it was years ago.

you mostly seem to be of a pro level, and probably have a shop full of all the right tools. well I'm just a kid, and did the paint job in my driveway, with a brush no less. by brushing it on I didn't need to mask everything, just be careful painting. I don't really reccomend painting this way, but I do recomend this paint. See the thing is I don't recall it being a 'heavy-duty off road' paint, nor was it a wheel paint. It was also around $30 for the gallon, so the price was right. Just thinking about it is going to make me 'go back in time' and find the recp't and'or label from the can to see what it is. Just recalling it makes me want to treat my lawnmower and other such tools to a nice coat of that same paint. I will post the true name once I figure it out. I'm sure it was rusolium though. I was actually kinda suprised when they brought out the can and rustolium was printed on there.
But, I can say that I definitly do agree with you, as I have learned a whole lot since I first bought the truck in '97. I am now molding a one off front end, and now have a small air compressor and am saving for a good high quality HVLP gun. I did just buy a gelcoat gun. and I surely do agree with everyproduct having it's place. Soon the cab will be coming off, and frame stripped with the job being done properly this time, great paint ouside and inside(and undersides too!)

just a note to everyone- I appreciate all of your good info, and the great little tips and tricks that I have seen some of you post on the site regarding a ll sorts of problems.

oh and BTW- to add a little more madness, about 3 years back I sprayed my front and rear bumpers as well as my mirrors and grill shell the body color. I used PPG deltron and whichever PPG epoxy primer they had suggested.
It was a 2 stage, metallic and clearcoats, and still looks awesome to this day. I actually have to wax and buff the body of the truck to match the bumpers and grill, because the paint is of such good quality, even when it's dirty.
I remember I bought the primer, paint, and all the other stuff(gloves, sandpaper, etc)for under a few hundred bucks, paint code matching and all) I remember it was like a quart of paint, and fixins.Still looks great to this day and no rust at all!