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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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This weekend I tried converting my '53 Chevy 3100 to 12 volts and nearly started a fire. I used the kit from National Chevy Assoc and thought I followed the directions. When I connected the new battery smoke billowed from under the dash and the hood. The 10 gauge red wire running to the ammeter nearly melted under the dash. It also melted down on the firewall where I had connected it to a 10 gauge wire running to my new alternator. Also the large wire running from my starter across and through the firewall melted. What did I do wrong?


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
You short circuited something to ground.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,029
F
Cruising in the Passing Lane
Cruising in the Passing Lane
F Offline
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you'd hafta determine what you did wrong, we can't see it, but you must have tied a hot wire straight to ground, maybe you had the alternator connections wrong .... and when you connected the last battery cable you should have seen a fat spark and immediately removed the cable to prevent melting things

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature, we find it attached to the rest of the world" ~ John Muir
"When we tug a single thing on an old truck, we find it falls off" ~ me
Some TF series details & TF heater pics
Joined: Jun 2012
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S
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Repair the melted wires. Put an Ohm meter on the hot battery cable to ground. Disconnect stuff one thing at a time. When the Ohm meter reads open you have found the problem wire. Do not hook up the battery until it is fixed.


Steve H
Joined: Jan 2013
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J
Shop Shark
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The 6V truck was positive ground. The 12V alternator is most likely negative ground. Which way did you connect the battery?

Joined: Feb 2002
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F
Cruising in the Passing Lane
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F Offline
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positive ground was a GMC thing, not Chevy

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature, we find it attached to the rest of the world" ~ John Muir
"When we tug a single thing on an old truck, we find it falls off" ~ me
Some TF series details & TF heater pics
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,159
W
Shop Shark
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W Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
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Get rid of the ammeter,and run a voltmeter! I kept my stock ammeter (dis-connected),just for looks,but installed a voltmeter under the dash,to monitor my circuits. An ammeter cannot support the extra voltage from an alternator! They're wired in series,with no fusible link,and they can over-heat very quickly. I installed a kit from A.A.W.,and on almost every installation page,there was a warning on this subject. Hope this helps.


Just sold: 1955 2nd Series 6500 2-Ton Flatbed Truck
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Joined: May 2001
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Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
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Ammeters have been run with alternators for millions of miles. I have run my Suburban over 20,000 miles that way and no telling how many put on it before I bought it.

Also, of course people who sell voltmeters will tell you you need one. Do you expect them to say you don't need this but we'll sell you one anyway?


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,298
5
Renaissance Man
Renaissance Man
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I don't know very much about electricity, but whatever you do, you need to stop letting the smoke out of the wires. Once the smoke gets out, you can't put it back in. Hope that helps! smile
Carl


1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
Joined: Nov 2014
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D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Posts: 164
Thanks. I'll go back and check again - this time more carefully! I appreciate everyone's comments.


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
Here's a link to some before and after photos and maybe you guys can help spot the problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ei6zsl2r3mmizwl/AABV3unqttq4BgThD8MtXhvpa?dl=0

In the before picture you see the red 10 gauge wires attached to the B terminal of the voltage regulator. Per the instructions, I removed the regulator and connected these wires to the 10/32 stud on the back of my alternator with a 10 gauge wire.

In the first after burned wire pic you see that I attached those wires to the firewall. Did this ground the circuit? See how the wire to the ammeter fried. Also to the left, see the wire that runs to my starter also fried. In the other "after" pic, you see where that wire attaches to the starter.

Thanks again for any help you can provide. Obviously, I'm a dunce and am paying the price...


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 328
S
'Bolter
'Bolter
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 328
Denny,

You need to start over and get better diagrams and instructions!

From what I see in pic #2 you have all the hot leads from batt/alt DEAD shorted to
the sheet metal on the firewall! Either your interpretation of the instructions is off OR,
what ever kit you got is dead wrong!

If you are converting to 12V I'd go with an internally regulated GM alternator. Get that old regulator out of the chassis.
Also, for simplicity's sake,
eliminate that AMP meter in the dash at least until you better understand EVERY wire and what its purpose is. You can always connect it again down the road if you really think you need it in a modernized charging system.

Here's a link to a PDF manual for rewiring a GM truck from Painless Products.
I'm pointing you to it because it is very educational!
They put LOTS of instructional information in them and you should LOOK AT PAGE 32 in particular; and compare it to your instructions.

This page is a BASIC engine compartment wiring set up for 12V GM style alternator. (and protects the wiring with a MAXI 50 AMP fuse under the hood (instead of a fusible link)
This basic set up is what I use to wire up
a new project to get the engine cranking,running,charging correctly before
continuing on with wiring the rest of the vehicle.

Go to Radio Shack and get a cheap $15 Volt/Ohm meter and familiarize yourself with the basic operations of continuity testing and voltage measurement. Get a good quality volt meter for the truck and wire it into the system whether or not you decide to keep the AMP gauge down the road or not.

Keep us informed and you'll get this sorted out! Good luck!
mike
http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/10203.pdf

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Cruising in the Passing Lane
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yes, those wires at the regulator should have been joined together and taped up, NOT attached to anything, especially body sheet metal - and that's 100% of your problem, replace the fried wires, tape up that junction and try again wink

also, you can discard that condenser on the coil bracket, it's a radio noise suppressor and even if you have a radio, it'll be useless - hopefully the white wire from the ignition resistor doesn't go to it

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature, we find it attached to the rest of the world" ~ John Muir
"When we tug a single thing on an old truck, we find it falls off" ~ me
Some TF series details & TF heater pics
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
D Offline
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
Thanks for the link, Mike. I definitely need "wiring 101" and this is a great start.

This forum is saving my butt!


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
Mike, your advice was very helpful. I read that manual as well as another book on 12 volt systems and feel more confident now. I replaced the burnt wires and now the truck runs fine, converted to 12 volt. I do want to add a 50 amp maxi fuse but my wiring layout is different than in the Painless Products example. The only fuse box that my 53 chevy 3100 has is for tail and stop lights. A link to the wiring diagram for a '54 is below - it's identical. I think the Maxi fuse should go on the 10 gauge wire between the starter and the ammeter, isn't that correct? Thanks again for your help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5pjp89p8lh3uyj/54%20Chevy%20wiring%20diagram.jpg?dl=0


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
Extreme Gabster
Extreme Gabster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,438
That is where I'd put it.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 328
S
'Bolter
'Bolter
S Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 328
Sorry I'm late…..

Congrats on getting her running!
Yes, agree with you & cletis. I'd use NEW 10 gauge wire if you're inserting a 50 AMP Maxi in that line. You can get a holder and fuse that will mount in a convenient location so you can visually inspect it in the future. Then in the future you can also power stuff safely from that point using it as a distribution point.
As long as you're at it …. go here for more wisdom on electrical matters….. This guy is great!

http://www.madelectrical.com/index.shtml

He's saved a lot of our butts over the years! He guided me on a delicate modification to a 76 Rolls Royce that had a burned up alternator and regulator. $1500 for a new Alternator
and $250 for a new regulator!! (They were beautiful castings, but $1750
for delivering 12 volts was out of my league!)
He helped me understand how to keep the Rolls Royce idiot light, but converted to an internally regulated Chevy alternator from NAPA for $69; plus it had a lifetime warranty at the time! Problem solved.
mike

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Posts: 164
Will do. That 10 gauge wire is one of the new ones I installed so this should work out fine. Thanks, Mike and Cletis, for your help!


~Denny
1953 Chevy 3100
w/1960 261 cid, 848 head | Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel carb. | Three on the tree & 3:55 torque tube | 12 V w/Gener-Nator & 6 V starter
In the Gallery Forum
1998 Chevy Suburban 350 ci awd/4wd


Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 55
Z
Wrench Fetcher
Wrench Fetcher
Z Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 55
Didn't chevy use a positive ground on some 6v stuff back in the day?

Last edited by zmaxmotorsports; 01/01/2015 12:06 AM.
Joined: Feb 2002
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Cruising in the Passing Lane
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Originally Posted by zmaxmotorsports
Didn't chevy use a positive ground on some 6v stuff back in the day?
no, GMC did

Bill


Moved over to the Passing Lane

"When we tug a single thing in nature, we find it attached to the rest of the world" ~ John Muir
"When we tug a single thing on an old truck, we find it falls off" ~ me
Some TF series details & TF heater pics
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,084
A
'Bolter
'Bolter
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,084
Thanks for those couple links Mike. Good sources.


Allen
Yeah, well, that's just like, you know , your opinion, man - The Dude

1948 Chevy 3600 - goal Original restoration, Current Stage 1 - Disassembly and getting body in primer
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1931 Ford Model A 5 window Coupe - Old Skool Hot Rod
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5
'Bolter
'Bolter
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When I wired my truck, I used a small amp battery charger to test the system, before hooking up a battery to it and having a melt down in case I messed up.

Brian


Brian
1955.2 3100 Truck
The older I get the more dangerous I am!!!!!

Moderated by  Jon G, Rusty Rod 

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