The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline No brakes - which direction should I go?

Good afternoon. I'm looking for assistance/advice on how to proceed. We have a 1952 3100 that had no brakes when we purchased it. The Master Cylinder is empty. The bleeder screes appear to be broken off up front. There is no parking brake cables.

We want to just get the truck drivable so that my son can drive it to school and we can drive it around some on the weekends. We live in a large city where all roads are mostly 45 mph posted and multi-lane.

I was planning on putting in new lines regardless of which route we go down. I am assuming that if I stick with what I have, I will need to buy a new MC, new wheel cylinders and what else for the drums?

Or, should I just go with disc brakes up front? The truck is has 6 bolt hubs. From what I have read, the "stock" wheels do not work with the kits. We aren't concerned about that other than cost.

How much money and effort will I be spending to keep what I have and getting everything upgraded vs getting disc brakes up front? I've never driven one of these older trucks so I am really clueless on what the drum brakes feel like. What is the return on investment? How much greater is the stopping? 10%, 50%, 100%?

Thank you in advance.

I'd replace all brake parts with original specification/style brake parts.

wheel cylinders
bleeders
master cylinder
brake lines/hoses
shoes & hardware installation kits
drums turned
(check the front wheel bears - re-grease and/or replace if needed)

Be careful with all the brass blocks, clean and re-use them if there are no cracks in the seats.

I have always used the original brakes and have never had any problems, including emergency stops from high speeds (60mph+).

Brakes aren't something you really want to patch up. I go with Tim's advice and rebuilt/replace all parts. Shoes you might reuse if lining is good and isn't coming loose.

John

Thank you! I was planning on replacing most of what Tim listed. My concern was doing it all and then coming to the realization that the drum brakes are horrible and dangerous and then spending a bunch more money and time converting to disc. Sounds like I have the blessing from the alter to proceed with original style.

Any recommendations on the best place to order MC, wheel cylinders, etc? Any places to stay away from? Will local stores like NAPA carry anything?

I bet that NAPA will have many parts.

I bet that Rockauto.com will have many parts (including drums, if needed) at lower prices, no sales tax. and fair shipping cost.

Napa will, Flaps will, our vendors will have your parts. the MC can be rebuilt in many cases. Power Disc brakes are better but you are talking $$$$. Teenagers will always drive faster than you want them to and brakes are very important. I wanted to fix up one of my old trucks for my grandson but was over ruled in favor of a modern truck with air bags and etc., safety equipment.

One thing mentioned above that should be stressed again---go easy with the brass blocks. It can be a bearcat to find replacements.

I've puzzled over this same issue with my truck since I brought it home.

Short answer: Take Tim's advice above. And, bartamos is right about safety equipment.

Longer answer...This was one of the first upgrades I decided I HAD to do when I got my truck a few years ago. I have been planning it since then. Haven't done it yet for a couple of reasons. First, can't afford the complete kits and the likely wheel changes required to use them. Second, I was going in so many different directions with my project and I ended up chasing my tail on this and other upgrade ideas.

Decided I wanted roller bearings. Good. Happy with that upgrade. But, that changes what bracket set/kit I can use. That changes the wheels. That changes the spacing. If I use a spacer, that needs to come with whatever bracket/partial kit I choose, but how does that affect the bearings? Some say they wear faster with a spacer. I have no clue. Oh, wait...my kingpins need replacement. Is now the time to do the upgrade? Oh yeah...I haven't got the money for the big kit...

What I ended up doing was buying a cheap front axle from a frame a guy was scrapping. So, I have been taking that apart, cleaning it on the bench, learning how things go together, finding the too-rusted-to-repair parts, changing out the kingpins and, when I have found the brackets and rotors and calipers and bearings and wheels and hoses and (hopefully) original hubs and spindles that play nice together, go with those. The spare axle keeps my truck on the road throughout all of this.

The point is, I am a novice. And, everything I do has an effect on the other end. So it has taken me almost three years to figure out that my truck has been running and stopping this whole time with the standard drums on it. I did have to change out some rusted tubing and some wheel cylinders, but that has been, by far, the cheapest repair I have made on this truck.

I'd recommend putting back to original and taking your time puzzling out the ramifications of the disc upgrade. Unless, of course, you've got a bunch of money to throw at it...

Just my amateur .02 worth.

Jim

I put stock brakes (other than a dual master cylinder) all the way around on my 55.2 3100 TF truck. I put over 3 thousand miles on it since, and it stops just fine.

I just bought a disk brake set for the front to use with my original rims that i plan on keeping on a 51 3100. I was informed by Tucker that i needed to buy a spacer to make it work. I have yet to put them on, but i will be doing so as soon as i return from my deployment and put the front end back together.

Chris

Take into account the amount of mechanical experience that you have when making your decision to change the brakes.

The stock brakes stopped the truck and others like it just fine.

Rebuilding the stock system is just parts replacement. Take a part off, replace it with the same thing. Rusted brake line? Take it out, lay it on the floor and Bend a replacement to fit.

It isn't hard and it doesn't take long. Changing the system is much more involved and time consuming.

Thanks all. I just needed some encouragement to go with replacing the original equipment. I tend to make wrong decisions and could totally see myself spending a bunch of time and money and then going a different direction. Budget is limited and experience even more so.

There are 3 quotes that I always remember when it comes to the subject of brakes:

1. "Your brake is your best friend"

2. "You can live with a truck that won't go... you can DIE with a truck that won't stop"

3. "Brakes are NOT optional equipment"

Your post caught my attention because I saw the location. A teenager driving in your locality (phx, where I have been several times) better have the best braking system you can possibly have... and bear in mind that most young people have no experience driving with non-power brakes. The pedal and response are entirely different.

I would rebuild the original ALL NEW and then train that young man extensively on how to stop that vehicle, and not let him venture out on to the road out there without his having proven that he's up to the task. I learned to drive in S. Fla. and the environments are very similar.

fwiw,,I changed the front to disc,got them from speedway motor no hassel at all. the kit has all the parts.before I got to enjoy it the truck was shipped bangcok Thailand.mony talks.i plan on doing the same trick tomy new old 55 van.i did,ntput this on here to start rif.just my 2cent worth.

what does Bangkok have to do with this?

I hear you. We have talked about this pretty extensively. He doesn't even have his permit yet and has just driven our "modern" vehicles in the neighborhood. So, hopefully he will be learning to drive in the old truck. The drive to school will be more for show than anything else. It's just around the corner.

I taught him how to ride dirt bikes and now he is an incredibly talented rider. I'm hoping I can do the same with driving. But these days, it's all about the inattentive drivers, so it's more likely someone will run into him than the other way around.

Fingers crossed and prayers welcome!

.
+Bangkok has nothing to do with the topic,if you would like to start [censored] slinging contest about,feel free to delete it.thanks to those who were not offended by it.

why so defensive? you posted something about how before you got a chance to enjoy it truck got shipped Bangkok Thailand.mony talks. Which if it was meant to say the truck got shipped to Bangkok, money talks. Meaning that you got a goodly amount of money to let it go. That would make sense, but since there was no punctuation, grammar, or spelling that I recognize I was just asking.

Let's get back to the topic at hand gentleman.

Any further fingerpointing and this topic will be shut down.

Thank you, carry on......

the stock brakes work quite well as has been mentioned, another item of safety would be installing seat belts. It is also quite easy to add bed roll lights, I even found 6 volt LED's to put in them. I'm using mine for additional turn signals, and adding a 3rd eye brake light, as well as the bright lights in the tail lights. The high candle power bulbs in the taillights make a big difference, but on bright sunny days they leave a lot to be desired. I have always shuddered at the idea of handing over a collector vehicle to a kid with a drivers permit. Generally speaking the first car gets pretty well rounded out on the corners and such. My kid will get my truck if she wants it, but she will get a cheap little disposable car to ruin first.

MR SWEET IF I MAY SAY ONE MORE THING.fwiw I was in navy for 20 years. had the pleasure of going to vietname twice.i log hundreds of hours fligh time.never once in all years havei seen people as critcle of others,ason a couple of major car forum.to badso few get a chance to say so much..

If I may steal this thread back;

I rebuilt the brakes on my '53 completely stock and have used it this way for the past 5 years as my daily driver. Never had an issue untill my wife and I were leaving a car show one day. Running about 55mph with a hot rod on my tail. I applied the brakes to make a left hand turn and the front drivers side brake grabbed hard and pulled me into the left lane. The hot rod behind me gunned it to pass and I had a car coming at me head on. The only thing I could do was stand on the brake and try to make my turn. I made the turn slideing sideways and ended it going backward.

Air in ONE BRAKE LINE reduced the brakeing power of the front passenger and both rear wheels so that I was useing ONE FRONT BRAKE.

It doesn't matter how good a driver you are, no brakes is no brakes. I could have killed someone. I could have killed my wife. The brakes worked great up to that moment, but I would have blamed myself if some one got hurt because I didn't make one simple upgade.

I will probably keep the drum brakes, they work great, but I WILL BE replaceing the SINGLE res master for a DOUBLE res master. (And seat belts)

by the way jim carter has all the brass blocks. You might have to call, but he has them.

Twotone,
obviously something went wrong with your brakes. However, if there was air th sealed system, it would have been at the same pressure as the brake fluid.

Correct me if i am wrong. I thought there was a valve (portioning valve or something along those lines) that you can put in the line to ensure that air doesn't flow into your lines if your master cylinder is original such as under the cab.

Going to shake the cob webs off this thread. Well, the temps here in AZ have finally dropped enough that one can spend a few hours in the garage without life impairing effects.

We are going to start on the brakes in the next few weeks. Hoping to drive it around the neighborhood on Christmas Day!

I was hoping that someone here might know the difference(s) between a 1951 and 1952 brake set up. The truck was titled as a 1951 but has all the signs of being a 1952. I have seen a few parts that have different part numbers for the 1951 vs 1952. The manual I have (1951 with 1952 supplement) indicates that the feeler gauge slot used for adjustment has been removed. Any ideas on what else may be different? Classic Truck Parts has a brake line set it sells and has different part numbers for 1951 and 1952. I know I saw something else with a different part for 1952 but I can't remember right now.

My plan was to replace the brake lines first. Once those are done, then I am assuming that I would replace the master cylinder. Then each wheel. I haven't worked on drum brakes before, so if someone could offer a step by step instruction, I would greatly appreciate it.

Lastly, several above told me to watch for the brass blocks. I'm not familiar with these. Can someone enlighten me? With my luck, if there is something that can easily be ruined, I will ruin it.

Thanks!

A '51 has Huck brakes. A '52 has Bendix brakes. Notice the Huck has adjusters at the top and the Bendix has one adjuster at the bottom. That should help you determine what you have.

Thanks cletis. I had thought when I was researching this earlier in the year that the huck brakes went up through 1950. Going to try to get one of the drums open this weekend to take a look at things. Is there anything I need to be aware of when disassembling?

Hill Boys,
Do not know your name. I like to know who I am communicating with. It makes for a more friendly site.
Anyway this is the brass blocks that have been mentioned above. They are called junction blocks.
Junction blocks
Harold

Thanks Harold! I updated my signature to include my name (Ron) and my sons name (Ryan).

I think we are going to go the bend your own route on the brake lines. I'm good a bending things.....

Good choice.

Ron,
New is the way to go. I bend things too---that is why I ordered the pre-formed lines from Jim Carter. They fit perfectly and are already flared and I did not waste time trying to figure out the angles. JC gives a 10% discount to Stovebolt members.
pre-formed brake lines
Thanks for letting me know your name.
Harold

Suggestions on a flaring tool?

I've done three of my trucks with a cheap generic flare tool.

Thanks. I've been reading where people say you need to buy a good flaring tool ($100+). If I am going to spend that kind of money, I might as well buy the prebent lines. I'm sure by the time I am done, I will have spent more (or close to) what it would have cost to begin with.

In case I end up going that route, how do you get the 10% discount?

The 10% discount is for contributing members. Make a donation then email [email protected] for the code.

You need good tools if you are going to do this for a living. The cheap tool from FLAPS will get you through one job easily.

Was reading your tech tip for the dual master. Should I go that route since I am replacing everything anyway?

I'd recommend it.