The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 valve job

Hello.

Im collecting information on doing a valve job on my 216.

Ive already removed the head (and oil pan). I may try to replace piston rings, but that is another post for another time.

On the valve job, I watched a video on youtube which goes like this:

1. After removing the valves, I clean up the seat with a bronze wire wheel.

2. Then I can chuck the valves (with tape on stem) and clean the seat on a wire wheel (I'm assuming the wire wheel does not have to be bronze for the valves themselves, and Im assuming by using the chuck and spinning the valve on the drill as the same time I clean it on the wire wheel it gets cleaner...)

3. After cleaning seats and valves, lap the valves into the seats by using lapping compound and hand held suction lapping tool. Put oil on stem to slide in, and dont get lapping compound on stem.

4. Clean seat for head gasket and put back together.

Is there anything else I should be getting ready for as I prepare to do this?

Thanks,

Judson

I'll start.

Take your head to a machine shop and have it checked for cracks and if your seats are good. They may need to be ground as well.

Also have them check to see if it is warped and needs resurfacing

Have the machine shop check your guides for excessive wear

Check to make sure your valves can be ground

This a pretty normal list of what is checked before rebuilding. I may have missed some things, and others will probably offer comments.

You will also want to check where the seat is contacting the valve face. Many times a back cut will be needed to sharpen the contact area for the valve to the seat and to raise or lower the contact between them.

I would recommend having a speed shop do the rebuild. They have all of the equipment for completing the job the first time.One more thing, when my head was rebuilt, I had them use hardened seats for todays unleaded gas. Might as well take the manifold assembly with the head to have them milled since it is also probably warped and will not seal properly against the head. The head cost just under $600.00 and the manifold was $135.00
I learned the hard way!

According how much the seats and valves are worn. Sometimes a valve lapping will do, sometimes the seats and valve seats need refaced. Also want to check valve stems and guides for wear.

John

Because I didn't have much money when I was reworking the head on my '38 I just lapped the valves. I was amazed at how poor the factory machining was on the seats. I put the lapper in my drill and "power lapped" them. It worked well for me.

...and, don't forget to replace the valve stem seals. I think you ask machine shop to simply check lap the valves, the cost will be minimal and you know it will be good to go.

Alot depends upon the overall condiition of the head and valve train. Did you do a compression check before teardown? Was it running?

The 216 in my 49 wasn't running when I got it but it was 99% all there so I decided to try and get it running 1st. Subsequent troubleshooting led to me pulling the head as I had 3 cyl's that wouldn't pump up over 40 psi. The others barely past 60 psi.
Everyone of the exhaust valves looked burnt so I took it to a machine shop.
$300's later I had a head w/new valves, guides, hardened seats, tested and passed for cracks, new water sprayers (directs water to the valve seat casting internal to the head), boiled out and painted to look like new.

The engine has over 6k miles on it since. To me it was $$'s well spent.

You can go the route you're going and end up way ahead of the game. What you've spelled out seems good enough to try and get it running. If it doesn't you can pull the head and send it off for checking/repair.
Good luck
Dave

Unless the valve seats are beyond refinishing you don't need to replace the valve seats. Lots of opinions about needing hardened seats for unleaded fuel. Unless you are building a performance engine or an engine that is going to get worked hard save your money for other stuff for your project.

Yeah there has been lots of talk about hardened seats over the years or not. I figured on mine, the seat were good, I'd wait and see. I guess they start wearing away then I'd have hardened seats and valves put in.....
John

Hand-lapping valves went out of favor back in the early 1950's. I'd strongly reccomend subletting the head work to a machine shop, especially since stovebolt heads without cracks in them are very scarce items. A comptetent machine shop will pressure test and/or magnaflux the head first, before doing any rebuilding to it. Valve stem and guide wear needs to be measured, also.
Jerry

As you can tell, most folks here will advise a good machine shop. There are good reasons for this. Back in the day these engines were easy to find and cheap to pull at the wrecking yard. That has changed. Most yards are modern only. And you are working on a 60 year old very heavily used truck engine. There was a reason it was parked. And you are about to find that reason. Parts are expensive, and it makes sense to get as much from the investment of time and money as you can.

"You need hardened seats" is how the owner's children got through law school.

how poor the factory machining was on the seats - not at all, that's what decades of service without attention does.

Mike-
Thanks for the reply.
I was told that it was good to check the block and head for cracks, and it sounds like you are confirming this is sound advice.
Thanks.
Judson

Thanks 53 Green.

John-
You mentioned checking stems for wear. What is the max amount of play that there should be between stems and valve guides?
Judson

Thanks, Tiny. That is encouraging that your valve job did the trick. Judson

David-
Where are the valve stem seals? I took out one spring/valve and did not see it.
Judson

Dave-

I remember you posted an answer to my posting several months ago, and your advice was sound and encouraging.
Thanks.

Yes, to answer your question, I did a compression check-and like yours, 99% of my car is there. I ran a diagnostic of starting system-everything was good-power to coil, plugs, distributor, started turned engine over-but not catching.

When I ran compression test, same as you-front and back cylinders at 0 compression, then 10, 20, 30, and 40 pds. Definately not enough to start. Thats why I pulled head.

Valves and piston heads have alot of black carbon. I think the ones with 0 compression may have been the ones open and not seating well.

I also am on budget as you said you were, but in addition want to learn how to do this myself-so I appreciate your advice. Some people say I should check the block and head for cracks, but it seems like doing valves is a step I can do first on my own.

The only other thing that looks tempting would be to change piston rings in case they are rusted-but not sure I should get into that at first-never done it.
Thanks again.

Judson

Thanks Don.

Hotrod-
So the stovebolts had a lot of cracks in the heads? Ouch, that is discouraging!
Judson

Ha ha. I like what you said-there is a reason why the car you are working on was parked-and you are about to find out that reason!So true, I keep thinking that as I go deeper and deeper into the rebuild.

The design of the combustion chambers of the stovebolt engines makes them suceptible to getting hairline cracks, especially if one runs a little low on coolant and overheats. Cracks allow combustion gases to get into the cooling system, resulting in more overheating which leads to more cracks, so it's a vicious cycle. Most of the cracks are repairable, but it's an expensive process that requires specialized welding and/or machining facilities. Cylinder head repair is beyond the capabilities of all but the most dedicated hobbyists because of the cost of setting up the procedures, and there's a fair amount of skill necessary if welding is the repair method of choice. Cast iron isn't the most welding-friendly material in the world! 50 years ago, a cracked head would get scrapped and another head would be acquired from a salvage yard for a few bucks, but those days are long past. As the engines get older, replacement supplies are drying up.
Jerry

Thanks, Jerry. I like that in depth explanation. It makes sense! Thank you!

Sometimes a well used head will have a lack of carbon on one or more of the chambers. Instead they will be cleaner with some rust. This difference can be a sign of a crack.

That is good to know. Mine seem to have alot of carbon. Im hoping there is no crack. Based on the info everyone has given me, Im thinking of just doing the valves, putting it back together, and seeing if the compression improves enough to get it to start.That will be my starting point. Judson

I'll butt in on this thread too, if ya don't mind. As long as you have the pan off, you really want to check clearances on the bearings and tighten them up as necessary. Plastigage is cheap. You'll see how your bearing surfaces look. As a first timer I found the plastigage fascinating to use.
Karl

cool. thanks Karl. Judson