The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline r-10 borg warner od.

Does anyone have a pic of the part that the cable attaches to the overdrive lever on the side of a 1955 car r10. All i have is the cable and i need a way to attatch it to the lock out lever. Right now i just have it hooked up with a bolt, nut 2 washers and another nut. Kinda sloppy.

Here's the manual page for it. It's from the Truck manual, but the picture is the same in both the Truck and Passenger manuals.

I'll try and send you something when I get home tonight. Mine had a bronze nut that was locked to the lever and sat just behind a hole through the lever. You run the cable end through the hole then put on another bronze nut that captures the wire against the stationary nut. Like here. Or here. Of course, I may have it on wrong.

Look at post number 995252 in the following thread:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...Main=146197&Number=994586#Post994586

I have some better pics at home that I can try to send up.

Unless I am misreading your request and you're really referring to the bracket that sits below the solenoid that holds the outer sheath of the bowden cable?


Best,

Jim

NO, that's it. That's how i have mine set up but i think it should have a swivel or something there.

The bolt that goes through the actuator arm has to pivot when it is tightened down to hold the cable wire. If it does not it's possible some of the original parts were lost. It uses a bushing that is slightly thicker than the arm so it can move freely.
Fred

Anyone have a close up picture of it so i know what to make.

I am obviously missing some parts then. Dang.

Now that's just what i needed. A picture goes a long way with me. All i have to do now is find the parts. Off to the hardware. Thanks Dave.

Just so happens I have a 1955 pass in the shop right now getting an OD.

Don't suppose there is any difference year-to-year then? The bronze nuts on mine sure look original (to the 58 or so OD attached to my 55 3-speed that is)?

I never figured out the cable hole in the non-stationary nut. Maybe there was more than one way these things were hooked up? Here are a couple of closer pics of mine:

Lever bolt with hole
Lever assembly

It sure makes sense to me, though, that the bolt end should swivel. Otherwise, you're putting flex into the bowden cable shaft each time you move it. Then again, I have to admit I have taken it out of OD exactly two times since I got it running. You were right Fred!

Jim

Your setup looks like it will work fine, but the one in my pictures is the one I have seen on all of the OD's I have worked on.

Dave's photos of the bushing are correct. However, you could use non step bushing with a washer on each side. It just has to be a fraction larger than the hole in the lever to enable it to turn when it is tightened down.
Fred

A piece of 1/4 inch iron pipe, 1/4 inch thick, A 1/4x1 inch long bolt, 2 flat washers and 1 lock washer. Drill a 7/64 hole below the head of the bolt for the cable to pass through and you are done. Look at Pre '68 Daves picture to see what the bolt looks like.

Takes about 10 minutes from start to finish, all you need is a hacksaw and a drill.

1 door bushing and a 5/16 bolt,washer and nut and i'm in bussiness. Got the cable in took for a test run. Push in on the cable take off let off the gas and it freewheels but don't think i'm in o.d. Rpms seen the same.

I have very little actual experience with my R10 since its being restored, but when I did try it, I put it in 2nd and when I wanted it in 5th (same position), I had to push in on the clutch, take it out of 2nd and put it right back into 2nd and when I released the clutch, it was in 5th. Same with 1 and 4 and 3 and 6. It did this very reliably.

Since I have all of the documentation, I should read it huh? lol!

If it freewheels you are not in OD.

My experience is only with a 3-speed OD, but when I first rebuilt it, I had to learn how to drive it.

I would come off the gas (after the solenoid kicked in - had a small bulb rigged to tell me that), then jump back on the gas in about a half second and never got it to switch into OD. Discovered that I needed to come off the gas for about 1.5 to 2 seconds to let the old girl think about it for a bit, then she thumped right into OD and the world got quiet again.

A beautiful thing.

I will try a couple of these bolt fixes til I find the right one. Thanks guys for the help. And thanks Basham for the thread.

Jim

A substitution bolt done well can work for years. My original didn't have that bolt with hole so I kerfed two washers, the cable sandwiched in between. I added two more nuts and a nylock nut. Complicated solution but worked for several years till I found the real one which is beautifully simple. Smooth action in the range of motion is the key for the home-made unit.

I was hoping someone would take the bait. What is the proper way to work the 3 speed Overdrive so you get 4,5,6? I could read the manual, but hearing from people with practical experience is really the ultimate.

To do that, you would probably want to set it up to be manually shifted in and out of overdrive. That would allow for gear splitting in all gears. I would have to look at the ratios and perhaps do a little math to figure out the actual pattern one would use, but one could simply do 1rst, 1rst/over, 2nd, 2nd/over, 3rd, 3rd/over to get 6 gears. The pattern may not work out that way, though, as it is dependent on what the actual ratios are.
Personally, mine is left to work as it would in the oem application, other than the addition of a switch for when the overdrive is locked out and not being used. That pretty much eliminates the use of 1rst/over, as hitting 28 mph in 1rst gear before it engages would wind things up a little too tight. Usually, I'll only let it split 2nd gear, then shift directly into 3rd over.

It would be nice if i have driven one of these before. I'll take it back out in a few days and try it again.

That IS how it works. A 3 speed OD is essentially a 6 speed transmission. With the OD off, you get the everyday, standard 1 thru 3. With it on, you get 3 additional gears that are stacked on the first three. 1 and 4, 2 and 5, 3 and 6. Granted 1 and 4 are pretty much useless since as Bill states, the OD is locked out at about 30.

What I want to know is, I am hearing people talking about letting off the gas to get things to engage, I personally take it out of gear, and put it right back in again to get it to shift at the proper speed, what is the correct way to shift it? When I get to this stage in my rebuild, it would be nice to know the CORRECT way. Not the way the manual states unless its the same as what practical application from people here use.

My old friend, the late great John Erb told me to NEVER engage the OD below 30 mph, rather turn it on AFTER 30. If I didn't do what I was told, plan on rebuilding and replacing a lot of stuff. He told me to make this mistake ONCE and pay dearly for it. Had to do with putting it in reverse with it on being a bad thing. So, he was the local guru, what is the consensus here?

Ah, I see what you're after now. I leave mine in gear and back out of the throttle to let it shift, which is how the manuals (shop and owners) describes to operate it.
One of the nice things about having it setup the way the factory did it is that you really can't engage it under 30 mph, or at least not for very long. Not only will the governor will not allow it to engage until 28 mph, but will also disengage it at 25 mph. If everything is present and in working order within the transmission, it should not be able to be engaged in overdrive in reverse, but I suppose if the reverse lockout rod was missing/broken/bent, one could do that and damage things.

Thanks Bill! I am so excited about getting my truck on the road, but as you can see from the pics, it will be awhile. The OD is so cool. What would be just a LITTLE bit cooler than the OD, would be to get it off the column and put it on the floor. I would LOVE to get a Stovebolt Team together to accomplish this very thing. The same setup could be used for the standard 3 speed, so EVERYONE with a column shift could benefit. I would task this team with using the 4 speed floor transmission cover as the locator and make it look just exactly like the traditional 4 speed. I know there are problems, but I also know the guys here can overcome them.

Deve,

I also set up my rebuilt OD to work as the factory intended. COSMO can provide you with a darn good list of reasons to introduce a manual switch, providing the true split-shift capability. But, I was intrigued by the way the manual described the theory of operation and how 'automatic' the connection between the driver and overdrive could be. Nobody knows that manual more than you do, but I was really taken in by the thought that went into how and when these OD units work. I do not regret putting it back to factory setup and have been enjoying my truck ten times more with the OD.

1st is too low for my ratio to be effective in OD (3.90 rear), but I will 'allow' the trans to shift into 2nd over when running around in town (by simply lifting my foot off the gas after 28mph). Most times, though, I keep slight accelerator pressure until I get to third, then I'll let it drop into 3rd over. Sounds like the engine goes to sleep, it's so much more quiet. I love it.

As for converting to floor, I can't see any reason why that would not work. None of the mechanicals interact in any way with the column shift, top to bottom. Other than making sure the shift lever patterns don't change (so the reverse lockout rail operates as before), there's nothing to think about with the transmission side. All the electricals are independent from the shifting mechanism as well. I reconnected my kickdown switch as intended, but again, that's on the carb and totally independent of the transmission levers.

I say 'go for it!'

Jim

Deve, you have started a new thread and deviated from this man's original intent. This is called 'bad form'. Start your own post or others will not be able to find the valuable info (his and yours) that this discussion may lead to.

sincerely,

Cosmo

There is no 4, 5 and 6 when you work the transmission properly.

When properly wired it won't go into OD until a speed of about 30 mph is attained. This rules out OD in first gear. There is very little need for OD in second gear. Driving in town it is best to manually take the tranny out of OD mode. The best use for the OD is highway driving.

I think the people who wire them so they can use OD in every gear are being silly.

I have had BW OD behind Ford Y-Blocks for 50 years. Years ago I had them wired so I could shift into OD in all 3 gears. But I admit that I was silly when I was younger. I even had the reverse lockout removed so I could use overdrive in reverse. Going 30 MPH backwards is just plain stupid. When I got serious about driving, like proving who had the fastest car in town, I locked it out of OD. Shifting the Hurst Mystery shifter was so much faster than waiting for the OD to shift. And this silliness came with a price. I knocked out an input shaft and cluster gear about once a month. This left me with just second and hi which was no problem with a 3.89 or 4.11 rear. But I had to remember to park where I didn't have to back out of because knocking out the cluster gear took reverse with it. With all the front sections I tore up, I never remember tearing up the OD unit itself.
For normal driving I kept the kickdown switch under the foot pedal where Ford put it. I think Chev has it in the carburetor. To shift into OD, I just floored the pedal. To shift into OD, I merely let off the gas until I felt it grab OD and then floored it again.
Hurst made a Mystery Shifter especially for OD transmissions. It is a modification of a regular shifter that allows room for the shift solenoid. I see NOS Hurst shifters for Ford T85, T86 and T89 OD transmissions, but I'm not sure I have seen one for a Chev with OD. But I really never looked either. I recently bought a 68 Saginaw OD that I want to put in a GMC. I am thinking of using a shifter for an auxiliary transmission.

I'm sorry. I thought his question was answered, so I added more overdrive related content.

The way I was taught by my old friend was an on/off switch on the dash and a pull cable. So this necessitates the need to take it out of gear and put it back in at the correct speeds. I hadn't researched the proper way to do it enough to know about a kickdown on the carb. Learned something new. As I said, I have all the docs for everyone to share but haven't read much of it myself. Thanks, Ill shut up now.

Might have found why the overdrive wasn't working. Took the trans apart to replace the tailshaft bushing and notice that the solinoid was not hooked to the little piece that works back and forth. Not sure what it's called. So i held it in place and installed the solinoid. I reassembled the trans and will try it out in a few days. Did seem odd that the piece wasn't connected to the shaft of the solinoid. Actually had to pull it and hold it in place. If i ever have to change the solinoid seems like the piece it hooks into will fall back down.

With the transmission in the installed position and the OD shift lever engaged, the sun gear pawl will be disengaged. Meaning it will fall down away from the control plate. That is the normal position until the solenoid is engaged electrically.
If the round tip of on the solenoid shaft is not connecting with the pawl, there could be something wrong with the solenoid.
When you install the solenoid it makes a 1/4 turn to engage the pawl and line up with the bolt holes. When it is installed it will hang there and not fall out even without the bolts installed.
Fred

It was on it's side so that explains it. Where could i find a new slip yoke for one of these.

Basham, let's see a picture of the solenoid shaft.

Thanks,

Cosmo

I have already put the tranny back in the truck. Still does not work. Maybe I better recheck my electrical. What were you thinking about the solenoid, wrong one maybe.

You can do a quick check to see if it is working. With the ign switch on, connect a jumper wire from the KD terminal of the relay to ground, if the solenoid clicks the solenoid and relay circuits are OK. If not we need to go to plan B.
Fred

Ok, i can hear the relay click and when i touch it with a test light i can feel the relay but i can't hear the soleniod click unless I run a hot wire straight to it, then it clicks real loud. 4 prong relay with fuel guage going to #86. acc switch to #87. solenoid to #30. dpdt sw to #85. Any ideas.

As I told you in a PM back in March:

"The solenoid relay is not grounded until the governor is spinning enough to make the ground connection. That usually happens at 27-30 MPH. Until it gets up to speed you can't use overdrive."

I don't see how you can make the relay click with a test light unless you are using it to ground terminal 85. And grounding 85 should cause the solenoid to engage. If not you probably have an open somewhere. Take a meter and be sure there is power to 87 and continuity between 30 and 4 on the solenoid.

I guess there are a number of ways to wire up the Bosch relays. It shouldn't matter as long as they work and get results.
I have had success with the ignition power to 30 with a jumper over to 86, 87 connected to the #4 term on the solenoid, and 85 to the relay term on the KD switch.
As cletis stated, if you are not getting power through the relay to the solenoid, its not going to work.
Fred

I will check this out tomorrow. I understand that it kicks in at speed but it's not. I will check for power and conntinuity. This has to be something simple.