The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Clutch disc sticking to flywheel (new install T5)

Got the engine running today and slapped on the drive shaft onto my new T5.... next problem in my chain of problems...cant put it in our out of gear with motor running. I think I have the clutch adjusted pretty close. I crawled under and checked out the action while the neighbor pressed the clutch pedal. I could clearly see the pressure plate pull back while the disc loosened - although it did stay close to the flywheel. I could take a screwdriver and move the disc a bit with the clutch in.

Hoping I could work it free, I then proceed to start the truck (in gear) going backwards then frontwards a few times. That allowed me to finally use the clutch to stop the truck (engine stll running). Still no gear changine. Then I proceeded to drive up and down the road in one gear. That process didnt change much...so hear I sit...any ideas

A little background on the install...I dont know if it was necessary but I did extended the splines on the tranny shaft..the disc did move freely on the shaft while off the truck...

Are you sure you have the disk turned in right direction?

had a similar problem when rebuilding my 248 found out that someone put the wrong flywhhel bolts in at one time and when installing the correct clutch the springs on the clutch disc were coming in contact with the flywheel so I had to put new bolts in thus eliminating the problem

I think the splines of the input shaft aren't cut far enough back to allow the disc to disengage from the flywheel. I've heard you need to grind some relief splines with a die grinder to resolve this problem,
Scott

Scott is totally correct in his analysis of your problem!!! I ran into the same problem with my T5 install....and cured the problem by slightly extending the splines.

I've documented the process with pictures and some instructions on page 5 of my Webshots "Shoebox". The key to getting the clutch to function properly, is to USE THE DISC on the massaged spline to make SURE it slides 3/16 to 1/4" past the end of the factory splines. If you don't slide on the disc and make sure it will slide past you may (or may not) solve your clutch drag problem. I hope this helps you solve your problem.

I ran into the same thing the first one I did. I think everyone that does that swap does.

I did exend the splines and based on pre-measurements it sure looked like it would work...I guess its back on my back...good times

Wrenchbender, if your into 50s music- my band is closing for Wanda Jackson this Friday at Knuckleheads (behind Isle of Capri) Wanda has got to be 70 something and still a rockin...
Miss Major

Just removed the tranny and re-installed it just in case something was bound up...well the re-install didnt help things...I had previously extended the splines about as far back as they can go....Do I need a spacer between tranny & bell housing? If so, will a couple of washers do?

Hey Tractorboy that would be a great show to see. Wanda Jackson was one of my favorites back then. She used to sing at some of those clubs on 12 th. &15th streets back in the 50,s. Good old country-western music. I can,t take the smoke in those places anymore. Maybe some day they will get the anti-smoking laws through but I dought it.

...man this stuff is fun... . Clutch and tranny are out again. Dont see anything obvious. I'm thinking the tranny shaft may be wedging on the pilot bearing. (It measures too close for comfort) I removed the bearing and will try cutting off 1/8". This wont hurt anything will it? I'm pretty sure the disc is coming off the flywheel (when clutch is pushed in). I was able to stick a knife between the flywheel and the disc. The knife is about .050 thick.... :confused: :confused:

Did you cut the input shaft to match the original transmission you removed? Same thing with the input shaft bearing retainer? If it is not cut down enough the clutch will not be able to disengage.

I did all of that as well as extend the splines..

[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/1tractorboy/PC200233.jpg?t=1166646706[/img]

Do you have the pilot bush in the crank far enough. I had that problem & I could see marks on the pilot bush. where the shaft contacted. It looks like you have done your arithmatic acording to the photo. Was the clutch disc free from the pressure plate also when you were under there with your knife?

The pilot bush was flush. Last nigth I was able to push it back a little bit (not quite 1/8). I removed it before I tested the setup with the bushing pushed pack. I figure I may as well cut it down to be doubly covered. Would a flush bushing cause problems?

I dont think I did the knife test on the PP side.

It should be O.K. if it,s flush. If it was hanging onthe splines it would have been tight against the flywheel. I,m running out of ideas. Does the pilot bushing turn on the shaft while you have it out. The trans shaft should only have a small amount of play. If it,s excessive you can add shims in back of the bearing race. I don,t think that would cause this problem though.

You might be fighting the wrong problem, If the first and second syncro are burnt a little it will hang in gear and be difficult to shift. When this happened to my Sonoma I changed the fluid and added some Friction Modifier and it helped. If you are sure the changeover is correct check out the tranny.

Why not try and looosen the trans up and place a washer between the trans and the bell at each bolt.If the clutch diengauges your binding into the disc or bottoming out in the pilot bearing.The input shaft must spin in the bearing when the clutch is disengauged .Good luck

man, wonder if she was in Kansas, city when I was at the truck show in sept. One of my all time favorite.. Heck George, we could have brought a fan, open the doors to keep the smoke out..

wanda jackson.. lets have a party

from the picture it looks like the input shaft itself is not cut unless you can taper the end nicely.

Hey Tractorboy,
Trust me on this....put 4each, 1/8" thick washers on each bolt between the bellhousing and transmission. That'll fix your problem. I experienced that same thing when I installed the T5 in the '60 Burb. Good luck.

tractorboy,did you make sure the clutch disc slides on the extended splines.Another option would be,grind the surface of the splined hub on the disc.You want to grind on the side that faces the transmission.I extended my splines and ground my disc.I have pictures of both on this site.I believe they are on the second page of the hipo section.

I tried the washer trick and it works now!! Is it ok to leave the washers in or should I further extend those splines?

Next problem...no power...idles fine but no mid or top end...very slow to rev, bearly moveable...starting to feel defeated here :confused:

tractorboy,
Leaving the washers would only add the possibilty of the bolts coming loose.These where only a dignostic tool .The next battle is to determine what is binding ? Dont give up your almost there.

Advance the timing.

Good call Wrenchbender!!!!
I advanced it "off the hip" but its close enough now to drive to someone to fine tune it.
Went on my first short cruise today!

Thanks for all of your help guys! See ya on the interstate real soon!

One question.....did you slide the 14 spline disc on the input shaft after you "lengthened" the splines? If you don't get the end of the factory splines "tweaked" just right, the disc will NOT slide to the rear.

How do I know this? I got in a hurry after extending the splines and didn't bother to pull the pressure plate and disc. Same problem! Popped out the disc....checked for 1/4-3/16 movement past the end of factory spline and even though it looked good....it bound up on the end of the spline. FINE TUNING the end of the factory spline did the trick. No washers, no binding, no hassles! I hope this helps.

We did slide the disc several times to check freeplay. Moves nicely. Of course it sticks at the very end of extended splines but we had about 1/2" extra slide past end of factory. Thought that was plenty. I plan to pull it all back off again and further extend the splines. ??? what else could it be????

Is the bottom of the bellhousing open? If so, assemble the trans onto the bellhousing with just the clutch disc on the shaft, no pressure plate. See if you can spin the disc freely with the tranny in neutral when the trans is bolted up tight. That should determine if it's clearing the flywheel sufficiently. If not, grind the back of the disc spline, or extend the tranny shaft spline further back. If the bellhousing is not open at the bottom, try turning the disc through the starter hole.
Jerry

Quick question, does splines need to be extended on all the t-5 trannies? I have an 89 iroc camaro t-5 tranny that I plan to install in my 60 chevy with a 235. Seems Like tractorboy had a hard time with his.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigblackcat:
[QB] Quick question, does splines need to be extended on all the t-5 trannies? Yes. It varys with the clutch disc. Slide the disc on the trans. shaft & mark where it stops with a magic marker. That will give you a referrence point. Hot Rod has a good suggestion putting it in without the pressure plate then you can measure how far to cut it.

anyone have this problem (clutch not releasing fully) on a stock '49 Chevy 3600 with a 1954 motor. Stock 4 spd. With engine running I cannot put trans into gear. I have adjusted the pedal linkage as far as it will go. New clutch disc, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing. Flywheel was resurfaced, but not much taken off. Would really HATE to pull this trans out again as it is very heavy and has a lop side bottom making it difficult to support on a jack

The usual reasons are

Clutch plate installed backwards

Wrong through out bearing

Could also be fork or linkage problem

Anti-rust coating on the flywheel wasn't cleaned off and stuck to the clutch plate.

Unfortunately, not taking the trans out isn't probable.

Well, clutch plate would only fit facing one way, flywheel, disc, and pressure plate were thoroughly cleaned, fork and pivot ball are fine....Could be linkage, but other than a little wear, I can't see how. And I'm pretty sure I matched the throw-out bearing to the old one before tossing it. Was by myself, so I think I need someone else to depress the clutch pedal while I watch from underneath with the cover off the bottom of the bell housing. I'm also worried that it could be the wrong pressure plate, but it sure looked right when I got it! Got any ideas on a good way to "manage" trans removal on this heavy, awkward (lopsided) trans??? I only have a floor jack and the trans wants to tip over. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate any and all help!

Take the trans floor cover off, put a strap around the trans. With the truck door open go in with a cherry picker(engine lift).
Hook it to the strap and have it support the trans while you pull it back. Then lower it to the ground.

Great tip !!! Will it move far enough back that way? It would sure beat the balancing act I did the first time. Thanks, 55 Shaker!

Mark I couldn't tell ya, you're going to have to measure. It's something I did to an old 60's International 4wd Scout, when I had to change the throw out bearing. It was about thirty years ago, but I remember it working out O.K.. And you're welcome.

The engine crane is a great when you can use one.

You can take a piece of 2x8 or 2x6 to the table saw and cut a V pocket to match the trans shape and drill a hole to clear the drain plug. Put it on top of the floor jack, makes a huge difference.

That will be plan "B" I guess if the crane won't fit. This trans is very tall, heavy, and the bottom is off-set or "lop-sided" as I said. I would also have to be able to strap the wood to the jack so it doesn't try to slide off, and then even strap the trans to the wood "cradle". Again, do-able. Thanks Jim

You can do it with a floor crane. You will have to turn the transmission a little to get it through the floor. Once thru the floor you can turn it straight and slide it in.
Did you look at the fingers on the old pressure plate and compare them to the replacement pressure plate?

Straps?? Hum, that's an idea.