The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Still grinding in all four gears

OK, last week I was on stovebolt asking about all gears grinding when my engine was running but shifting fine when the engine was not running. I was told that I had put the clutch disk in backwards so I took it apart today switched it around and put it all back together and it is still grinding in all gears when I turn the engine on. I adjusted the off set rod to each extreme to the point where my reverse and first gear linkage is actually rubbing and still i can't get it into any gear. This started out as an engine swap from original 216 to a 235 out of a 62 Impala. I am using everything from the bell housing back that i had on the216,because it all was in good shape. I am baffled at this point. Is it possible the throwout bearing is the wrong size? Please, any help at this point would be appreciated. Thanks for any advice.

could be the wrong throwout, or it could be in wrong .... if you leave off the lower bellhousing cover you should be able watch in there while someone pushes the clutch [engine off to start] and see if the clutch is being actuated - but you either had the clutch backwards to start, or it's backward now, that needs to be addressed

Bill

According to the picture in the manual, I did have it in backwards. Looking at the clutch disk from the side,the center part protruds out on one side and the other side is some what flat, i originally had the protruding side facing the engine now i have it facing the transmission. When I look at the throw out bearing while someone pushes in the clutch I see the throwout bearing move but not much, maybe an inch at best. So, if the bearing is not right, what do i ask for? The engine being a 235 (58-62) and everything back of the engine being original 216 stuff.

There are two throwout bearings, a short and a long. If it worked before it should work now.
Did the bearing come off of the fork while you were working on it? It could be something wrong with the fork, the spring clip that holds it on to the ball in the bellhousing,maybe the bearing itself where it connects to the fork.

Sorry, but you are probably going to be removing the transmission again to get this fixed.

The engine you are installing (62 impala engine), what transmission did it have? Was it an automatic? If so did you install a pilot bushing in the flywheel for the front of the transmission shaft to be supported in?

John

Hey Tommy,yes the bearing did come off the fork and quiet frankly I was surprised how easy the ball and fork went back on. I did hear that there are two sizes of bearings, I looked in Jim Carter and they show it but the 1 7/8 inch bearing was used from 1938-72 and that is what I have. I am fully prepared to drop the transmission again, just want to get ole red back on the road. What do you look for in a bad throw ou bearing???

Whitelightning, the engine was attacxhed to an automatic, I did put a new pilot bushing in. This has really got me stumped, bearing is pushing against diaphragm spring but just not enough to disengage.

I'd say you have the wrong through out bearing. Maybe you should jack the rear of the truck up, put it in gear and then have someone push the clutch in and then turn the rear wheels. If the clutch doesn't release I'd say you have the wrong through out bearing.

Red49,

Do you have a shop manual? The throwout bearing would be dry and not turning easily if it were bad, you said you greased it ,should be ok. The fork and the stud that the fork hooks on to inside of the bellhousing, need to be looked at. Sometimes especially with the age of the vehicle, these things do wear out. If you look at the end of the fork, you may see wear on the tip. Good luck.

How about the linkage adjustment. Try adjusting the linkage so there is practically no play in the pedal. You can tell if it is releasing by having someone hold the pedal down or prop it down & get underneath with a screw driver. With the trans. in neutral the disc should turn & have a gap between the linings & flywheel & pressure plate. If the fingers on the pressure plate are recessed & parallel to the flywheel it takes the long brg. If the fingers protrude out the opening of the clutch it takes the short brg. The early models had the flat pressre plate springs but often replacements use the later model. Either work but must have the matching TO brg.

This is as good a picture as I can find.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1954truck/54ctsm0685.html
You can if you try, put the friction disk in backwards, and you can, put the throw out bearing in backwards as well. Look closely there is not a lot of room for error in the set up.
The long nose on the friction disk is to the flywheel.
The long part of the throw out bearing is to the flywheel.
With the clutch set up the bell housing is what matters and I don't recall that was changed. Same set up for 3 speed and 4 speed, so that ain't it. Let us know what you find.
By the way...How do you think I figured this out? Oh yes! I did it wrong my self. Is there any other way to learn?

Also if the fork isn't clipped into the socket, and its just floating in there, that could do it too. If you don't hear a distinct click and the fork sits there all by itself without coming out, then you need at least a new clip.

I'm just grasping at straws here but is it possible that the geometry of the linkage to activate the clutch has changed with the new engine. What if you were to install a longer or shorter rod somewhere?

Wrenchbender, I got a diffrent pressure plate with the fingers parallel and a 1 7/8 TOB going to try this, also I think the fork had too much wear and the clip was in terrible shape. replacing that as well and give it another shot. Thanks

Steve H, I did have the friction plate in backwards, I am also concerned about the fork and spring. Fork looks worn and the clip looks really bad going to change them out and try again. Thanks

Deve, good advice, checked fork and it did look worn, an clip is in terrible shape. Going to replace and try again. Thanks.

red49,
while you are in there check the ball that the fork hooks on to,
if the fork and the spring clip are worn, the ball stud probably is also. I experienced this first hand ,had it all back together and it still didn't work. Then realized the ball stud was bad.

I have two questions. #1. Is the pilot bearing in the flywheel or the crankshaft? #2. Did the OP have any problems finding a pilot bearing that fit, given that the engine came from an automatic?

The bushing would actually be in the flange of the crankshaft.

John