The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Replacing patch panels

I'm getting ready to weld in about 15 replacement panels, and I was wondering if anyone had any detailed pics ofthem cutting test fitting and welding in, so that I know I'm not gonna ruin my cab doing something wrong

Any help is appreciated

Not sure of your truck year and wow that is a lot of panels, mine are in this set of pictures. I just have a few but here are some suggestions.
Measure twice cut once!
Work one side of the cab at a time if possible, brace the door openings or keep it on its mounts.
Think about best access and weld approaches, most panels have some material to spare (not all).
You tube has some good tutorials.
There are some other bolters with extensive documentation, they will add their valuable links and advice for you.
Oh and the last piece of advice is have fun and see it as a very fulfilling challenge.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8129080709/in/set-72157631867396207

It sometime helps to use thin card board to make a pattern, of the hole you cut out of the cab or? If you need 15 panels your cab is already ruined, your gona fix it. So what year of truck?

This isn't specific to your truck, but does give a a few details on the fit up and welding process...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=935825&postcount=93



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BRACE BRACE BRACE BRACE

Start on an easy one where it shows the least. Cut only one or two at a time. You will get better as you go.

Dennis

check out Woody Vondracheks website, has a lot of usefull pictures

Like Brad said measure twice, cut once. Except that I always cut 3 or 4 times, as I ALWAYS seem to make the patches a smidge too big. But that's better than cutting it 3 times and it's still too SHORT.

Without knowing the model truck, or your experience in welding, its hard to know where you are at. If you are a really good welder, then you understand warping, sizing, etc etc. If you are learning to weld at the same time, that's another story. We are happy to help guide you through in any case.

I use a MIG wire feed, make cardboard templates where I can, use butt weld clamps to keep things smooth, and weld no more than a 3/8 inch spot in one place, then move far away to put another weld in, just to keep warping to a minimum. A GREAT Resource for really understanding welding is weldingweb.com. The forum there is specifically for the craft of metal working. Also, grinding can warp the metal too, so take it easy with the Makita!

Cut the patch to size, not the body panel to match the patch. Its much easier to get a new replacement patch than it is a body panel!

My truck is a 1949 chevy 3100. I have some experience in welding, but a buddy of mine who went to school for welding offered to weld for me..... I'm replacing almost everything around bottom edge.... Inner cab corners, outer cab corners, rockers, inner cowl, inner to outer cowls, outer cowls, top front cowl, all 4 door pillars.

Brad, how do you like using the clecoes for panel holding?? I was thinking about ordering some of them.
John

They work great, I paid $10 bucks for them at HF best money I think I ever spent there. They are fantastic for holding curved surfaces in alignment best of all tack it all up and just undo them. I Tig welded all my seams so blow outs were not a problem for me.

I like to use magnets too for holding panels to get a tack weld or 2.

Dennis

When I started following MP&C's advise to make the patch as tight as possible I saw cleco's would leave a gap which doesn't help the blow outs any... So the old speaker magnets I had laying around held things nice and tight.
I've also taken to laying a this strip of copper sheet between the mag and the back side of the weld to help prevent blow outs on thin metal or when filling holes.

Another really handy use is installing nuts and bolts on the bed. Drop the bolt through, set the mag on it and then move underneath and slip the washers on one at a time, grab the nut and start it..

You are taking on as big of a mess as the first AD that I restored. Very challenging. You will need a 55 gallon drum to use as a cuss jar, but when you get done, you can charge admission to allow people to talk to you. I had the good fortune of having an unmolested and straight extra cab to take measurements when I got carried away and took too much apart at a time. One tip that will help you is to maintain the hinge pillar/top of door opening/lock pillar/rocker panel integrity. If you have to replace any of these parts, go slow and do one at a time. Avoid taking shortcuts by doing something like, removing the lower hinge pillar and the rocker panel at the same time. It will come back to haunt you when you try to fit your doors later. This technique of one-piece-at-a-time will serve you well throughout the extreme amount of panels that you need to replace. If I had not had the extra cab from which to take measurements, my former haphazard approach of taking apart too much at a time would have made it impossible to get it right.
Carl

Hey Deve,
Is your MIG wire-feed the argon type? I noticed on the weldingweb.com site that several recommended against the 110 volt and welders that weren't argon gas, or whatever it is. I have an almost new wire feed welder and wanted to keep it and use it. Are some of the folks on weldingweb a little on the 'crotchety side,' if you know what I mean? I have yet to begin my body work but hope to start in the next month or so. Thanks. And yes I will practice on some scrap pieces from the local salvage yard.

lane

That was where I thought about getting Clecoes was at HF, maybe a couple sets even....

John

I just use straight CO2 on my mig, seems to do fine for me.

John

I use the 80/20 argon mix. It seems to help with my marginal welding skills. You just cant get professional results from flux core wire. At least that was my experience. Crotchity is all in the way the new world communicates. Welcome to the internet. What I do is just ask my stupid questions anyway, and someone will stoop to my level and actually answer with helpful info. If they don't the first time, try again.

Straight CO² will work, but 80/20 makes less splatter so it is well worth the money on patch panels. I use .025 wire on patch panels and I ignore suggested settings. I set the machine to the right heat and wire speed on some scrap before I ever attempt the actual weld. Flux core wire is fine for welding outside in the wind, but hopefully you will be in a place out of the wind.

Here's Woody's site. GREAT INFO!

http://www.pbase.com/czechman/arightside&page=1

hey deve and white lightning ..... thanks .... and deve i think you are so right about the lack of decorum in the internet age .... which is precisely why i like stovebolt so much ..... largely sensitive and respectful ..... a healthy atmosphere in my mind, one even a 12 year old could join
lane

I usually only used the suggested setting on the welder as a starting point then adjusted it up or down from there for best results then.
My old welder I knew where to set it, just from the years I had used it. This last new one I'm still feeling my way thru best setting.
John

John, was your welding arrangement a flux wire or argon gas setup. My local welding supply guy says that the real difference, other than quality of the welding machine, is the splatter created by flux wire welders which would be more difficult to clean up. Any thoughts for me? If I go the argon/co2 setup I will have to buy another welder since the one I have doesn't have a place for the gas to feed thru the welder. thanks
lane

You don't use any kind of gas with flux core wire, it is self shielding. Flux Core has a flux in the center of the wire. The wire is actually hollow.
I use .023 (.024,.025) mig wire for most sheet metal stuff, .030 for heavier stuff. Some on here use .030 mig wire for welding in patches on these trucks since the metal is 18-19 gauge stuff.
Flux core isn't very good for welding sheet metal, leaves a dirty looking weld, similar to what you might get with stick welding.
Have you checked to see if there is a kit for upgrading your welder for shielding gas? What brand welder do you have??

John

John, it's a cheapie called MIG-100 flux wire welder and does not have the fitting or apparatus for accommodating argon/co2. Looks like I will have to get another welder. The local welding shop told me that if it doesn't have that port or fitting for gas I would need to buy another. It's probably gonna' be bad enough with me having so little welding experience without a dirty looking weld and a clean-up mess. I found a welder, guage, and hose on e-bay for $250 which was different than the quote of $800 for a Miller. The guys on weldingweb.com are adamantly against using flux-wire on sheet metal. But I had to ask here as folks on stovebolt have considerable experience fiddling with what I have ..... a 46 chevy that needs quite a bit of body work.
lane

The flux core is hard to keep from burning through sheet metal.....I think you'll be happier with a mig. If you can buy one of those cheap self darkening welding helmets from HF or NT.
makes it nice if your working inside the cab and it is tight, don't have to worry about trying to lower your helmet ect....
I bought one from Northern Tool that has replaceable AAA batteries in it for 59.95. They have others that don't have replaceable batteries, they typically last about 3 years before the battery goes dead in them.

John

John

Thanks for the good info and especially the hood .... I didn't know they could be had for that little $$. I sure didn't know that flux core was prone to burn through the metal. What a learning curve this all is!

lane

This last self darkening hood I bought is from Northern Tool and Equipment.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200480403_200480403

John

I had a leak in my oil pan.
The nut and bung were 'screwed' up and I asked a friend who's a certified welder if he could help.
All I had was a HF 90amp flux core wire feed for him to use.
After all the same prep he'd of done for MIG anyway he used the wimpy sh&$*y HF POS and it worked just fine.
yeah, He had to clean the splatter and he peened it some but he was good with it so I was.
It still doesn't leak.
even though it was that POS HF junk...

I used that welder for most of my patches following the same protocols as he did and the only place it 'tended' to blow through was where it was thin from rust or I had a larger gap.
I still 'tend' to blow through things with my new welder too... before I get it dialed in.
If your welding sheet metal without a copper backing your 'tending' towards blow thru anyway, from my experience. (limited though it is)
If I had to wait for the 'proper' set up I'd still be waiting to start...

CASO, after patiently wading through your first 11 lines, I was rewarded with the gem of a line on line #12. Truer words were never written. Did you do that on purpose? Bore me to death with relative drivel, to provide better contrast to illuminate your gem of a statement? If so, bravo my man, bravo.

Yeah I like the copper idea too. I take pieces of copper pipe, split it and flatten it out to put behind some places I'm having trouble with. I always used the 1/32" thick 3" cutoff wheels on panels if I was butt welding something together.

John

i liked what he said in line #12 as well ..... right now i am waiting on the right shop to be built [just kidding] ... truly, most of us do with what we have .... but CASO's story was great
lane

Brad,

Great work. I enjoyed being able to see so many of your progress photos!

John, with a '58 Apache in Raleigh, NC

Thanks John I had a ton of fun doing it and now enjoying it!

I'm pretty sure that you can buy spatter release. Comes in an aerosol can. Never tried it myself but may save a bit of headache if you do go the flux core route. As for welding I've mostly done TIG, it's great as far as warping but can be a bit of a pain and likely out of the price range for what you want to spend.

I think that regardless of the machine you have or have access to, being proficient in using the tool will make a world of difference. A $4000 tig may be the cats pajamas for doing bodywork, but if you don't know how to use it, you have a $4000 box to trip over in the shop.

I'd say get some scrap, use the machine you have, and practice, practice, practice. Making sure the metal is clean (no paint, no rust, no contaminants) will help a ton as well.

I have put every available patch panel in the AD year cabs, running boards, fenders, doors, etc etc. I pride myself on it being very hard to detect anything was ever done. I get better as the years go by. I have done everything with a Lincoln SP-175 wire feed mig.

I WANT a tig but haven't bothered to get one because I don't really have the time these days for the learning curve. Maybe someday. Instead of an expensive tig welder, I have invested in lots of grinding tools. Carbide rasps and thin cutoff wheels for the 3 inch die grinder as well as the Dremel so I can really zero in. Works for me!