CLETIS,thanks for the advice. it has been 40 years since my last date and i am not up to speed on the ways of doing things now. i thought the liberated woman would like a self sufficent man, not a needy one looking for a house keeper. try try try again. that may be my problem, no pets no woman no worries. ron BTW another chance to bolt thru the snow tonight, 4-6 inches by morning.