The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Vortec 4200 in an AD truck

A couple of pix from my vortec 4200 inline six engine swap into my '51 GMC..

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/efi_diy/

The engine fits its a bit tight on the PS pump and alt. Bang for the $ its hard to beat these engines - ebay has listing for engines that are under 30,000 miles for less than $1000. Its really hard to rebuild a 250/292 for that price.

Its not a bolt in though and does need fabrication - the end result is a truck that gets >25 MPG and goes like a raped ape.

Nice pictures. Did you go MS or Westers to keep the variable valve timing. I have read a few of your posts in Inliners.

Nice project.

Thanks for sharing your photos with us. I'm very interested in this swap. I think it will become a popular choice with those of us who enjoy inliners. I assume you used the OE transmission that is used in the Trailblazer. That would make for a very nice setup. What rear end are you using in your truck?

That looks like the orignal 4L60e.

I liked the oil pan mod. Cant tell if that is a 3.5 rear sump or just a modified and puzzled 4.2.

For those looking to do a 5-speed, search the forums on inliners site. Its not cheep unless you find really good deals. Westers Garage will do a custom PCM code to keep the variable valve timing, and have either automatic or manual trans.

I used megasquirt and currently left the VVT disconnected for now.

The oil pan is a 4200 with mod's <- this was the hardest part of the swap. I think though if the truck had the orginal front axle ( I front clipped mine) the 4200 oil pan might fit as is.

The cost of a used 4200 is actually quite low:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-T...615QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

With a bit of looking I think this swap could be done for under $1800 complete.

I'm running a ford 9" out of a '78 cougar - its 1/2 wider than the stock rearend. the transmission is a 4L60E - currently shifting the transmission using 2 toggle switches and 1 for the LU convertor.

I think this swap will become more popular - the cost of the engines is quite good right now - no one wants them..for now.

Shortly the megasquirt boys will have a version that will support coil on plug ignition and sequential injection. So the EDIS install will no longer be required once the s/w to support the crank trigger is in place. In conjunction with this the megasquirt 4L60E transmission controller is due out soon too. This gives a complete tuneable engien and trasnmission control for most likely under $600.

The one item that MS will not support is the drive by wire throttle control so a earlier LS1 throttle body and adapter is needed.

The rest is straight mechanical fabrication - mounts etc.

I was happy to see this post as I am also considering a similar swap.
Remember I've got more guts than brains! I'm not sure if this
will work for me but here goes my plan. Also a 1st timer, so be gentle.
I have a donor v/6 vortec ,700r4 attached,also have the computer and steering column unit that was removed from a 92 Astro (from 168 to 170 compression tested on cylinders prior to removal)Mustang II IFS, engine & trans. crossmember kit.
Someone mentioned that EZ wiring has nice kits for these engines.
Also I read that the chip is not compatable unless I use the donor Igniton system. Can you guys advise me if there are some other Issues I will encouter. I will only be installing this next summer so any help will be much appreciated.

I originally considered a Cummins inline 6 turbodiesel for my 3/4 ton, but decided against it...mainly because I'd never get the truck insulated enough to avoid hearing loss.

The swap looks good and should perform well.We currently rebuild this engine and there are very few aftermarket parts available.I'm curious on the year you purchased because they had some issues with the sleeves dropping.When OE installed the sleeve they fracutured the flange at the top.This being the only thing that keeps the sleeve in place it drops and we know what happens then.The issue was resolved after a year or 2 of early production.We currently build this unit for the military in Iraq with great success and I hope you do as well.If you have any questions please drop me a line.

Well I got offered an '02 motor for a price I couldn't say no to, that is whats currently in the truck.Recently I bought an '06 engine complete less electronics for under $800. The '06 is what I'm going to build.

The build plan in a nutshell is:

Darton sleeves
J&E pistons
Crower rods
Billet cams
72#/hr injectors (to use this much fuel you need a LOT of air).....

Aiming for 120HP/hole...

Sounds like fun we actually worked with Darton to build the sleeve .I was not aware of any performance part being available.You are adding the larger injectors how do you plan on gaining the air flow.The intake is plastic you probobly can't do much with that but maybe a larger TB .You could have some one flow the intake and heads and just see how much it can flow.I would guess some where in the 200cfm range.Good luck

Rumor has it the '06 head is good for 320 cfm on the intake and 230 on the exhaust... In NA form and killer duration race cams hese engines are making 100 HP a hole.

Your right everthing is custom built right now... with the engines starting to show up in volume at the wreckers I think the intereset will climb for the aftermarket to start providing parts.

As to adding exra air flow.... Garrett has a lot to do with plans for this motor thus the need for a stout shortblock.

The '06 and newer engines are the better ones to start with, especially if using stock EFI setup as they have the MAF trim on them. Again, nice project efi-diy.

As you stated, the engines are fairly reasonable. However my path of manual transmission would cost a minimum of $2500 for the driveline complete without the mods to the oil pan yet.

To all - Based on my research, the trans mounting pattern on the ATLAS engines is NOT anywhere near the SBC or even the GM 60 degree. Either custom adapters are required or use parts from the Colorado 3.5 for a manual transmission with a custom flywheel for the 4.2, or stick with the 4l60E from behind the 4.2.

Hot Rod Dad, There are plenty of ways to make the 6B or even the 4B a little quieter. The 6B is easier than the 4B because the 4-cylinder shakes like a dog passing a peach pit and the whole truck will vibrate. For a 6B, get a 2005 or newer ISB with multiple injections per cylinder event to pass the Wendy's Test (Pulling up to a Wendy's and ordering food without shutting off the engine). If using an older unit, wrap the exhaust, and get your hands on the old NP options which dampened noise significantly. If the engine you use has the Bosch In-line pump on it, insulate the pump, this is where half the noise comes from.

If you need a 2005 or newer ISB I think we still have some takeouts at work

Scott

To all - Based on my research, the trans mounting pattern on the ATLAS engines is NOT anywhere near the SBC or even the GM 60 degree.

Correct... with I update - the dowel pin locations are exactly the same as a SBC, so if you have a scattershield then all thats needed is a few new hole to mount the adapter plate to the block - the race team I'm helping did exactly this so I know its correct.

rear view of a 4200


Scott

I just got one of these motors and trans.(4wd) I wanted a 2wd but it was only $200 off of ebay. I've read a few posts on this swapp but when I see all of them wires compared to my 292 I'm thinking this might be a mistake. Are there any good referances that I should be reading or any help out on the web for this swapp.

Inliners.org

You need to answer the following question honestly:

1) are you going to modify the engine or just swap it in?

If the answer to #1 is yes then there is a bit of a learning curve ahead. MSEFI.com is a good place to start - read the newbie intro material.

If no then you will want to use the complete factory wiring harness and computer which will need to be reprogrammed by Westers Gargage in Tilley Alberta. You will need to get and install the gas pedal out of a trailblazer.

2) Get a book on introduction to fuel injection and read it from front to back and front again.

3) You will need to get a good digital multimeter and learn how to use it.

If your comfortable with automatics and want to stay with an automatic you can swap the output shaft and tail housing to convert it over to RWD

I just want to do a straight motor and trans swap. THe motor I got has all the assecories a/c p/s wiring harness but no puter. I can get one cheap. I didn't get the exhaust or the sensor on the exhaust nor did I get the fuel pump and cell. There was only one motor mount and no fans.

efi-diy... Did I read somewhere you made up your own mounts if so are you a sharing type of person? I know my app is different but any ideas to gease the monkey or is that the pig would be helpful.
I also found the westerns web site earlier so if they are in the know I'll be looking at that site again.

I hope a guy like me can do this swap becuase I think more and more guys are going to looking at MPG rather want to be race cars/trucks for restores. Don't get me wrong HP is fun but I want to drive my truck whenever I can. With $3.50 gas prices and Cheney saying that Americans can pay up to and over $5.00 per gallon it's going to be hard to stay on the road.

$200 is a darn fine price - local yard here wanted $900 for motor alone without accessories, harness, etc.

Westers is about $450ish for reprogramming the computer and converting to a 5-wire installation. and you will need the electric pedal.

Scott

Sorry I didn't keep the motor mount sketches...

Basically 1/4" flat plate + 2x3x.125 box tubing and about 10 hours of @!#$! I used mid-70's gm mounts as the isloators

I think as gas goes up this motor with a turbo is going to be the way to go. V8's will always be around but driven less...

I thought the drive by wire was 2006 or something. 2002 used a a cable and a sensor to on the carb or what ever its called to tell the pc the info.

I think I might start a web site to publish info and get feed back. Do you think myspace would let me call my webpage the blue whale .......

I'll keep looking on the web and asking dumb questions

4.2 engines never had a throttle cable, they've always been throttle by wire.

I just replaced one of these engines in a 05 envoy with 46000 miles for a worn thrust bearing surface on the crank. I can get the core for free and was thinking about using it in my 36. would anybody know what I need to use for just an ignition system? the fuel injection is way to ugly for my application, so I'll be using side-draft carbs.

Your quite limited in your choices:

1) run full GM electronics - not sure if it will just run the ignition.

2) check with MSD to see if they have a compatible COP system.

3) use the ford EDIS system with megasquirt in ignition only mode (just don't hook up the injectors, TPS, O2 sensors). If you check the picutes I posted a link above. The EDIS system will run the engine at 10* BTDC until it gets a modified spark advance from megasquirt. What may be really cool depending your perspective is to convert the side drafts to EFI (hide the injectors and fuel rail under the manifold..) ...

To simplify the ignition portion I could inquire at the same machine shop that I had my parts made at to see what they would want to duplicate the brackets and trigger wheel.

4) if your a machinist type of builder - adapt a dist. to one of the cam sprockets - this is most likely the most technically difficult choice.

MSD has COP compatible systems which are used in Limited Late Model. Electrodyne and a few others offer ignition only systems.

Inliners.org has a few who have used the engine. However, I would suggest full GM electronics and have it re-programmed by Westers Garage.

Scott

I got a file off the net webs that shows all the pins and their functions if any one is interested. They called it a pinout?
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4845
I'm hopwing that it may be useful to some of us.

A couple of pix of the design work in progress...


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3717/ll8turbomanifoldassem2xu6.jpg

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/efi_diy/

Hey guys

Great site

I have an 82 Mercedes Benz that I want to drop the Vortex 4200 into. the engine is being removed as we speak. I was thinking of a V8 but this little beauty looks just the ticket ?

After the physical stuff I'm gonna need some advice on the electronics so I sure hope you guys can help.

The Engine I use will stay stock as the 270 HP is pretty good for what I want.

Nice job on you project Efy

So if anyone can steer me in the right direction for electronics (hopefully I can you the wiring etc from the donor vehicle ? What do you say ?

There are 2 issues you need to decide on:

1) do you want to run the stock GM electronics with a tweak by Westers garage.

2) if not #1 what do you want to do for an ignition system MSD or ???

think about this then I can give you more guidance.

Project update...


Mockup turbo exhaust manifold installed on the '06 motor. Will be installed in the truck this weekend for fit check etc.

[IMG]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6092/p2030197pp1.th.jpg[/IMG]

and

intake design 99% complete

[IMG]http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3788/intakeassem1ecg1.th.jpg[/IMG]

Been a while...

The trucks been running the built engine for a while now. Currently in the process of finishing swapping in a 4l80E - even a well built 4l70 just isn't strong enough.
Last year the engine got a stout billet girdle so the '80 is the last mechanical piece before I turn the wick up. All the remaining parts to install the methanol fuel system are ordered. Once this is installed the boost goes from 11 on pump gas to 20 (initially).

It been a wild ride getting to where the project is at.

There is a newer public forum 4200 specifically to support the 4200, swaps, and builds.