The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Clarification about T5 transmissions

A T5 manual transmission is a popular swap for these early Chevy trucks. There are Camaro and S10 versions of the T5. However, some folks think the Camaro version of the T5 is rotated and not a good option. Actually, it is a very good option and gearing is usually more favorable than the S10 gearing. It is not rotated at all when mounted to a standard bell housing.

I just finished stripping down a T5 in preparation for a rebuild and so I had an empty case and tail shaft that only weighed a few pounds (instead of 75 pounds).

I took these pictures today to clearly show that the Camaro bell housing is what causes rotation. There is NO ROTATION of the transmission when mounted on a standard bell. I actually mounted this stuff on the wall of my garage so I could take pics.

1965 Chevy Cast Iron Bell

T5 mounted on Cast Iron Bell

Camaro Bell Housing - rotation by design

T5 mounted on Camaro bell housing

Camaro shifter stick position

I need to find a T5-S10 that will bolt up to my original 1953 bell housing and give me floor shift that looks original to the truck. I have no experience with this kind of mod. I just want the shifter to come thru the floor in the right place and then I need to weld a longer shifter.. it has to look original. Not sure if its possible, but it would be awful nice if it were.

I need to find a T5-S10 that will bolt up to my original 1953 bell housing and give me floor shift that looks original to the truck. I have no experience with this kind of mod. I just want the shifter to come thru the floor in the right place and then I need to weld a longer shifter.. it has to look original. Not sure if its possible, but it would be awful nice if it were.

I may be wrong here, but rotation is not the issue in this swap. The issue is the location of the shifter on the tail housing. The S10 is located farther forward than the Camaro, placing the shifter in a more original position in an AD truck. Just my two cents.

You would be surprised how many people have said to me that they "didn't want a Camaro T5 because it was rotated" which of course is a misunderstanding on their part. You are correct that rotation is not the issue. The biggest issues are
1. Finding an S10 tail housing with a cable style speedo drive.

2. Making the S10 tail housing swap. (Actually pretty easy).

3. Using an adapter plate ($160). This is not necessary if you use a V8 Camaro/Firebird T5 or a T5 from an Astro/Safari van.

Hey Lugnutz,
I have a T5 out of a Astro van and one out of an s10. If I remember correctly on the one from the Astro van the shifter is 1 1/2 inches further towards the bellhousing than on the s10.

I will venture out in the cold later today and check the measurements, then report back.

Tommy,
Maybe I can save you from going out in the cold.
I own . . . . , well let's just say "a fleet" of T5s. All Chevy. (I try to keep my wife guessing how many T5s I actually have. )

Here are photos of an 1989 Astro/Safari van T5 I just bought. Pulled it from the van myself. The shifter handle is offset, but the tail housing shift box is almost the same as an S10. An S10 has the front edge of the shifter box dead even with the back edge of the main case. The Astro van T5 has the front edge of the shifter box about 2.25" further back. All of the T5 tail housings can be swapped as long as you swap the case top cover plate with it so the shifter rod is the correct length.

Astro van shifter box is 2.25" back from the case

Another view of the Astro van shifter location.

S10 shifter location up against the case

Lugnutz,
You're right , I just was outside looking at them and I saw the difference was like you see in your pictures. I knew one of them was closer than the other. Memory isn't what it once was.

On my 46 1/2 ton I used the t-5 from an 89 s-10 as far as the shifter goes, I used the original s-10 shifter, all I did was took it off the tranny, unscrewed the chrome handle and stuck the curved shaft in a 10 ton press and straightened out,and screwed the chrome shaft back on and it fits perfect, and it didnt even hit the dash,see the shifter in this pic... http://s629.photobucket.com/user/kurtdh519/media/4-12-12014.jpg.html

@ T-5 swappers, this is great info and I was as mistaken as everyone else on the Camero T-5. Jay straightened me out. Listen to what he says, he's there, NOW!

Great info, Jay! When you finish your own, write up a "T-5 Spotters Guide!"

Best wishes,

Les

Good stuff, Stovebolters. Thanks for the wisdom.

I know quite a few people that used the s10 t-5 truck transmission tail shaft on the Camaro t5 transmission.I never heard the term rotated until now.

You can also use a jeept-5 input shaft and use your original clutch.Here is what ned did,it's his tech tip. t-5 tech tip article

Tim

Fellas and Gals,
If you care to watch my progress, I am building a Hybrid T5. It has a Camaro case and V8 Camaro gears and V8 Camaro input shaft - so I will not need an adapter plate. It is a Hybrid because I will use an S10 main shaft, S10 case cover and S10 tail housing with the cable speedo drive so I can use my factory instrument cluster and speedometer.

I could have used the Camaro main shaft but the drive gear location is in the wrong place for the S10 tail housing. All the parts are genuine Borg Warner T5 (plus a rebuild kit for new bearings etc.). I'm sure others have done it before me.

Here's a teaser photo.

Visit my website and follow along.

Jay

The T5 swap was the best thing I've ever done to one of my trucks. Swapping tailshafts on the camaro box is not very hard and you get a better box than the standard S10. Astro boxes are the ticket but are scarce as hen's teeth around here. I found a good 14 spline S10 box for $175, used a spacer plate for $145 and a new clutch disc for $78. Built my own shifter for $6.00 from Home Depot. Pretty Big Bang for the buck.

Yep,it's been done,but now we have a step by step process with pictures.I'll be following your build.

Thanks,Tim

I have an observation, I have a t5 from an astro van, it has the dorf bolt pattern. The input shaft is the same as a saginaw 3sp in length, there would be no need to do any cutting/grinding to use it. I believe that is what the jeep input shaft is also. I have the bell housing from the astro van ,it had a 4.3 v6 and would bolt up to a later model 230/250 or a small block. It's on the shelf, one day maybe find a good project to use it in.

I rebuilt my early S10 T5, but didn't take the really very nice pics you took. We all thank you for that I think. I also used the same rebuild kit supplier you used and received good advice over the phone from them when I needed help. For those that are unsure about rebuilding a T5 themselves, I recommend How to Rebuild and Modify High-Performance Manual Transmissions by Paul Cangialosi. Lots of picture detail and easy trick steps to follow along with T5 history across brands. Also, I'm sure you are aware of the Speedo gear modification explained on Inliners tech pages for the Camaro T5.

Anyway, I really do appreciate your lead on this and hope somehow it ends up as a Stovebolt Tech page source.

Tommy,
Yes, I have an Astro T5 also. It actually came out of a 1989 Safari Cargo van with an inline 4 cylinder. My research tells me that all V8 Camaro and all Astro/Safari van T5 trannys have an input shaft that is the correct length for use in an older truck with a muncie pattern cast iron bell. The folks who choose an Chevy-S10/GMC-S15 or Camaro V6 T5 have to deal with an input shaft that is about 3/4" longer than the V8 Camaro and Astro counterparts. The best solution to the longer input shaft is well discussed elsewhere.

For me, I chose the Camaro T5 because of the 2.95 1st gear. My Safari van T5 has a 4.03 1st gear. Besides, I bought the Camaro T5 very cheap as parts. I am able to replace the broken C-clip and thrust washer. the gears were all good. Simple repair.

I had originally planned on making the modification as explained in the Inliners article - move the speedo gear back on the shaft using a shim to build up the shaft diameter at the proper location. However, when I opened up my 1983 S10 T5, I found several broken parts. Input shaft is junk and the 3/4 slider may be bad as well. I completely disassembled the S10 T5 and then got around to comparing the S10 main shaft to the Camaro main shaft. They are identical - except for the drive gear location. It just makes sense (and less work) to use the S10 main shaft because it already has the correct location for the drive gear.

I have a video explaining a WC T5 rebuild and things are pretty similar. I'm sure the book is good too.

Side by side - S10 and Camaro main shafts - both NWC

Jay