The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Ignition resistor

How do I wire the ignition resistor into a system with a floor button starter?
I understand that with a key starter, when you hold the key all the way over to start, the resistor is taken out of the circuit.
Does the floor button also have a wire?
When I replaced the starter 2 years ago, I don't remember a wire to the coil from the button.
But, that being said, I don't remember anything from two years ago.

with the foot actuated starter, there's the main battery connection and another small terminal with a wire [purple if my memory is any better than yers] that goes from the starter to the terminal on the switch that the coil wire goes to - that wire only gets power when the foot switch is depressed/engaged, otherwise the coil gets + via the resistor only, which has battery + from the switch all the time

Bill

Red is right on. If the switch hasn,t got a small term on the side, get one for a 55 up.

Bill,

I have drawn the cartoon a hundred times and still don't understand how this works. Is there a picture or diagram you could link. '59 stuff is pretty scarce. I have a recent picture from 'mars.ark.' for a solenoid setup, but none for the stomp starter.

Stuart

yer like me Stuart, pictures are nice I woulda got one last night, but too cold and dark .... still cold now but nice and sunny!

here's one of the 57 with the factory wiring ... the black wire goes to the ammeter then on to the ign sw, BATT terminal, the purple wire goes to the sw, IGN1 terminal [or START on a V8 sw] ... the resistor and coil both have a green wire to the sw IGN1, the resistor has a brown wire to IGN2

when the key is on the resistor gets power via the ammeter, when the starter is stomped the depressed contact completes the circuit to the small post on the side [note it's below the BATT terminal, so it's simply that the big copper block in there moves down to complete the circuit], the full battery voltage is then put to the coil via the ign sw [which is also getting power via the resistor] - when the starter is released, the full-on power to the coil stops

hopefully that's clear!

Bill

I must have taken my stupid pills this AM instead of my vitamins because I don't see how this works.

If the ignition switch has only three positions...OFF, ON & ACC then in what position is the resistor bypassed for a full voltage 'stomp start'!

If the key is ON..power is going to the ballast resistor, then to the coil.

What position will bypass the ballast resistor for a full voltage start, but not allow power through when the key is OFF.

I might be loosing my mind! What don't I understand?

This dilemma is on a '59 truck with 12 volt system, stomp starter and ballast resistor before coil.


Stuart

The bypass power doesn't come from the ignition switch, it come from a lug on the stomp starter switch wired directly to the coil, thereby supplying full power during starting only.

On my 59, there is no lug for the red wire in Bill's "57" pic. I have a big lug where the battery cable connects to the starter. On the same spot is a black cable running up into the dash. I have a green wire from the ign switch to the coil.
Should I just put the resistor in that green wire?

Baldy,

If that is the case, then without having a key, a person could get this truck to start, but not continue to run when depressing the stomp starter. Is this correct...it seems weird to me.

Stuart

There is something that is being overlooked here and I don't know what it is. Installing a ballast resistor between the key switch and coil is quite simple. The pregnant question is how to switch the system so it gets full voltage on START only, won't start without the key being on, and reverts back to the reduced coil voltage on RUN.

Unless you have a very special ignition switch, I don't see how this works.

Stuart

Doesnt the the 12v direct come from the starter solenoid I terminal? posted a link to a picture below

Larry

starter wiring

Larry,

What a great picture. This would be the case if the truck in question had a solenoid type starter, but it has the old fashioned stomp starter, which was the one you pushed with your foot.

The proper starter switch for this '59 does have a power terminal on the side..my question was how is it wired to function properly.

I'm going to copy your neat, clear picture for my growing library of stuff.

Stuart

hey! I thought I sorted you guys out!

Jim - if you don't have that terminal on the side, I'd be betting you have the actuator [maybe the whole starter] from a 6V system, which didn't have the resistor, so didn't need the bypass - if you have that bypass wire [it's actually "violet"] on the main lug then the bypass line to the switch has power all the time, and any time the switch is on, if you have the single position 6 cyl switch [no ACC position on those switches, Stuart, just OFF/ON] - do a measurement on the coil with the key on and see if it's 12V [shouldn't be with a resistor]

depressing the starter puts power to the bypass terminal, which goes to the switch - the wire to the resistor [from the switch] gets power from the batt terminal on the switch when the switch is on ... the wire to the coil gets power from the other side of the resistor, but when the starter is engaged, it also gets power from the bypass wire, which hooks to the same switch terminal as the resistor [when "on"] - don't depress the starter switch, NO power from that side terminal - don't have the key on, NO power to the coil - put a jumper from the battery to the coil+, start the truck with the key off

I spliced up the parts of the wiring diagram, appropriate for all 12V 6 cyl models here

full voltage from the side terminal [when engaged], thru the switch [when on] to the coil .... power from the ammeter line to the resistor any time the key is on [parallel "short circuited" by the bypass wire]

Bill

Bill,

I'm still 'snowed'. I think the root of my confusion is the function of the ignition switch contact arrangement. On exhibit 'A', I assumed power came to the BATT terminal and was switched to every other terminal when the key was turned ON. When the key was turned to ACC, only the accessory terminal was powered. This is how you would sit in the drive-in and listen to the radio without burning up your coil or points.

I am looking at the picture you sent, but just can't make it jive with the ignition switch.

I'll guzzle some Wild Turkey and give it another shot.


Stuart

yeah, the switch simply completes or opens the circuit from BATT to the other 3, but on the 55-59 foot stomp ign sw, there's no actual keyed accessory position, that ACC terminal [power to all accessories] is hot only when the key is on, and the switch is just off/on, everything gets power or nothing gets power [except lights are always powered] .... remember these are yer basic cheap work truck, not the shaggin wagon the same era cars had the accessory position, and the 6cyl cars had key starters [solenoid]

Bill

So, I must have a 6v starter. I don't know why, weren't 59s built with 12V?

I don't have a stock ign switch, and half the wiring was done by a PO.

Perhaps I should install a two way toggle switch. "Down" will route 12v directly to the coil, and "Up" will route through the resistor.

Jim Bow,

I am assuming you have come to the conclusion that the lack of a ballast resistor was the cause of Homer's angina! This could be true..doing a search I noticed that back in '05 you mentioned installing a new wiring harness.

The easiest answer to this dilemma would be to install a internally resisted coil and be done with it. You don't have to worry about resistors on the firewall or little doohickeys on the side of your starter switch.

I am probably responsible for most of the confusion on this thread. It bugs me and I need to make it clear in my mind how it works. If it ever comes up again, I can puff up a chest and be the resident X-spurt on the subject.

Stuart

Although I don't grasp why, I'll take your advice.

Jim, the foot starter was the same configuration from way back - when they went to 12V they had to add the ign resistor to keep from burning up coils and points, but the resistor in the coil line makes for harder starting, especially if the battery is a bit weak or the ignition system less then prime, hence they needed a trick to ease starting ... enter a very slightly different actuator for the starter that had an extra terminal on the side to provide a source of full voltage only when cranking - and they put that new style actuator on the 12V starter, exactly the same as the one on the 6V starter, that didn't have the extra terminal

all that's happened is some one who worked on your starter replaced the actuator with an older style, which was common on tractors and may still be readily available

you could get an internally resisted coil as Stuart says [many folks do, at least for the V8] or you could find the correct starter actuator - and the correct ign sw's are also readily available .... like I prolly have some in the stash for the foot start

Bill

would'nt the 12 volt upgrade overcome the lower 6 volt starting issues ?

project - the truck under discussion here is a 59, already 12V

the difference in 6->12 is the 12V coil needs resistence added under running conditions, but under cranking conditions the starter is drawing so much that the coil, already getting reduced input because of the resistor, might not have good enuff spark to fire right up ... so they set up a way to give the coil full 12V when cranking only .... the 6V didn't have an ignition resistor

if you're converting a 6V, you can use a coil with internal resistance to avoid needing the external resistor or the bypassing

Bill

much appreciated red58