The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Seam on the top of the outer cowl panel.

Wanted to see what the opinions were here on the best way to finish this seam. Originally leaded of course. On some sites it is recommended to re-lead this seam, stating that body filler doesn't hold up and will crack. Others have said they use a filler with fibers in it for the roughing in of the join with a skim coat of body filler to finish up with.
I have to admit I've never tried using lead solder before.
Thanks John

If the surface is properly prepared I see no reason why body plastic wouldn't bond well. I'm not familiar with the seam so there may be more at play than I'm aware of.

I wouldn't think there would be a lot of flex in this area. Be the leaded seam right above the cowl vent on the passenger side.

John

The builders of these trucks didn't build them to have any flex. The places where there is lead is simply because that was the bondo of its day. We now have fillers that completely exceed any expectation the original designers had for these trucks. If a person wanted to be sure, just weld the seam. I have done several of these with plastic and its just not a problem.

There is not a lot of flex in that location.
It is just a joint. Lead made an excellent metal to metal joint/seal.

On GMC truck cabs, in 1954/55, that joint was made low in that window frame with a brass/bronze seal/weld and it was not smoothed over with filler.

Have you removed the lead?

No I haven't removed the lead yet. On the driver's side I was able to put in a panel without getting into the joint area. But on the passenger's side I think I'll have to go with a whole panel to correct past problems.

John

I'm thinking about using something like Duraglass for most of the filling and skim it with regular body filler to finish. Or would it be better to smooth the finish coat with something like "Icing"?
Question is, do I apply the filler straight to the metal after roughing it with an 80 grit disc as we use to do it or prime it with epoxy primer and then the filler as many say to do now??

John

Ten years ago, it was etching primer that was the first step. But now its epoxy primer. I can see why too. Its much more durable and sticks better. No doubt epoxy primer first. Rage Gold is just fine for the filler step. The rule is anything in the 1/8" depth area filler is appropriate. Never fill with any filler deeper than 1/8 inch. Once you have it VERY close but its still a bit low, Polyester filler (glaze) is used. The idea is epoxy first, filler, urethane high build primer.. usually this makes the surface high enough with no need for glaze.

What invariably happens is, you sand in some places down to the epoxy. So lets say you are a Clutz like me and you sand to the bare metal in some places after all of this work. That's the beauty of following correct auto body standards. The next step after doing all of the previous is Epoxy Sealer which you don't sand, then topcoat.

So, short answer is Epoxy, then filler, then 80 grit, then 220 grit. It may still be a little low, so then high build primer and/or polyester glaze, then 400 grit. Once you really like the feel of it, sealer then topcoat. I never use air tools or anything power. All sanding for the entire truck is done by hand. You learn the touch and feel aspects which are so important better that way.

When I started all of this, I purchased all of the fancy power tools for sanding. Spent a little time with some of the local professionals and now I am convinced that the tactile touch and feel of sanding by hand is far better. If you go to one of the accident specialist body shops, they will beg to differ due to the time savings. Restorers who really care about the end result do it all by hand. Evercoat's Rage Gold is my filler of choice.

Forgot.. make sure the bare metal is cleaned with metal prep. DX330 is PPGs answer. I use that. Its a very important step.

I have to admit, I can't feel the highs and lows as well as I'd like. I usually use Klean-Strip wax and grease remover to clean the metal surface before painting ect.... I have even used lacquer thinner to wipe down new metal that has been very oiled before. Seems to remove the oil film faster. Then clean it with wax and grease remover then.

John

You want to use your preferred wax and grease remover BEFORE you do any sanding. Otherwise you can drive contaminants into the surface you are working on. Then follow up with another cleaning before paint. Remember to put it on wet and wipe it off before it dries.

Have you ever tried it with a thin jersey glove? It makes no logical sense to me why it works, but I was amazed at how much better I can feel the high and low spots with one.

Never heard tell of that method. I have heard people say use a piece of tissue paper between your palm and the panel. I usually try a guide coat of paint.

John

A couple of "tricks" I learned long ago in another life when I went to body & fender trade school then worked in the trade for a few years. When you run your hand over a panel to "read" it, lay your hand full flat against the panel. Start the read on an unmolested part of the panel then move your hand over the worked part of the panel to an unmolested area on the other side of the worked area. Move your hand forward and back in the direction your fingers are pointing, not side to side. It helps to wear cotton gloves or put a rag between your hand and the panel if you're having difficulty getting a good read of the panel. I found it also helped sometimes to close my eyes if I was having trouble getting a good read.

The other option would be to flatten out the stepped flange, trim and butt weld the cowl piece in for a no filler (less filler?) repair. Many of these lapped and leaded joints were done at the factory for speed of assembly more than anything else. Get rid of the lap, it gets rid of the need for filler. Here's some similar sample "de-leading" and seam removal...


http://www.trifive.com/forums/showpost.php?p=357820&postcount=45


http://www.trifive.com/forums/showpost.php?p=360642&postcount=58

That is an idea. Might have to rework the top of the panel a little to match up.

John

I just did this ....used a small torch heated up the lead wiped off with rag while hot ....drilled out the welds .... drilled
1/4 " holes in new cowl ....welded in new cowl ....don't forget to drill holes in flange at door for welding ,...bondo fit the bill .... primed & painted yesterday I like it ....John Deere blitz black ....

Thanks all, sounds like I can get along with a good grade body filler then. I think I'm going to order the outer cowl, floor pan, cab mount and rocker panel. I'll make the inner to outer and the inner cowl myself.
John

If you want to put a filler on the top that is flexible, use paintable autobody caulking from you autobody supply store. Then you can paint right over it and it still stays a little flexible.

I've used the body chalk on flexible seams before. The only problem... The chalk will flex more than the paint does. Then you see white cracks in the paint. Probably wouldn't be a problem in this case, because I don't believe there is much flex at that area of the cab.

John