The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rebuild vs. replacing my 235

Hello!! I recently purchased a '55 Chevy pickup. It definitely needs a lot of work and I am planning to take it down to the frame and built it back. The engine needs to be rebuilt. I am trying to decide if I should have the engine rebuilt or install a crate engine with more HP. Either way I go...someone else will be doing the work.

I am torn between preserving the truck as true as possible to original or putting a more beefy engine..thoughts??

Beefier engine means beefier suspension and beefier drivetrain all of which means money.

For comparison, I had my six rebuilt (bored 0.030 over w/ mild cam and modified for full pressure oiling) for $1600. I bought a rear end from a 6 cyl Firebird for $350 and a 5 speed tranny from a 6 cyl Camaro for $350. So the drivetrain and suspension are both designed to handle the power of the engine I have.

55.1 or 55.2? I vote for new, bigger HP. I put a refreshed V8 into a TF several times.
With a new crate you get factory built, factory warranty. Depends on budget though. Turn key 350, 330 HP is 5K. Dealerships sometimes have swinging deals on engines someone didn't pick up. Call your local. Subtract value of your complete engine because it is sellable. I am a V8 guy. If you are not a V8 guy, a 235 can be pretty reliable and they do have speed and power. Many speed parts available for them. You know a Harley when you hear it and you know a V8 when you hear it. That's all I can say.

Sorry...55.2

Where should I sell it?? I have it on Craig's List for $200 and have not got any bites.

I was wondering how did you got it done for that price? I did most of the work myself and if I could have gotten it rebuilt for that I would have loved it. I hope I was not taken to the cleaners.

Here is my break down of my 235 rebuild.

Parts:

gasket set 80, intake valves 65, exhaust valves 49, guides 28, hardened seats 18, valve springs 36, 261 stock cam shaft 100, freeze plugs 10, lifters 110, push rods 36, pistons .030 150, rings .030 50, cam bearings 25, cam thrust plate 10, thermostat 8, main cap bearings 72, rod bearings 54, Asbestos rear main seal 15, plugs 6, wires 20. timing gear set 50. That's 992 in just parts.

Machine shop costs:

Install freeze plugs 25, hot tank block and magnaflux 150, press on cam gear 20, press on crank gear 15, recondition rods 65, connect pistons to rods 35, resurface fly wheel 35, polish and turn crankshaft -.010 x -.010 125, valve job 285, bore and hone .030 block 165, rebuild rocker assembly 65. That's another 985. Drum roll for a total of 1927 usd.

Plus here is what I did extra to make sure that everything was new I maybe have been able to use some of the old stuff but I knew the carb would have to been rebuilt and the oil pump too so I just replaced all of these things and to give it a few more ponies. the oil pump 62, water pump 78, fuel pump with glass bowl 50, Fenton intake 2x1 manifold 180, Fenton exhaust split manifold 200, Mini HEI 185, polished air cleaners and filters 90, carb adapters 1x2 30, C/W progressive 2 bbl carbs 180, water heat for manifold fittings and thick plate 40, carb accelerator linkages and other linkages 85, alternator to a 12 SI free which I save from another car, paint 20. Plus all the sealants, hoses, adhesives and little stuff and I had a bunch of stuff chromed plus had the radiator serviced too. It was fun rebuilding but the 235 is not cheap.

Well I was not going to go into so much detail of what I paid but I wanted to give moonshyne an idea, then he could pick what he actually needs to have done versus a total rebuild. Mine was locked up and frozen really in bad shape. It had an inch of grease, mud, dirt, and critters all over it. Oh I forgot the expense of the tools, engine stand, cherry picker and losing the space in your garage was another thing but now I have all the tools and did not mind losing the space. I would not have traded this experience for anything.

Good luck what you decide to do.

Yeah I don't know how you rebuilt one of these for $1600 either, when most people spend $2500-3000. Isn't 55 the year the V-8's came out anyway? So a crate engine would be nearly era correct. I am all about keeping them original(ish) at least era correct modifications. There have been a couple of concessions to the reality of today, and safety. Like 3:55 gears, and electric wipers. But mostly it is what you would have found in a vehicle in the 50's/60's. The simple fact is these trucks were never made to go fast, all the horsepower in the world wouldn't matter, you run out of RPM's first. Unless you replace the entire drive line. Not to mention the stock braking and suspension is marginal at best. Much over 70 MPH is pushing your luck. I remember my uncle had a 69 roadrunner that would go like 140 MPH, and had drum brakes. Sends shivers down my spine to even think about it now.

I have a friend who just bought a new GM crate engine (350 - 260hp) for 1525.00 including shipping to him. He got it from Jegs.

Tiny_Jaime, I don't think what you paid was all that bad. It's just a little more than what I paid, and I got a deal because a friend of mine knew the builder. Plus he works out of his garage building racing engines, so he doesn't have the overhead some others have.

pick up trucks are work vehicles, they wern't designed to go fast. just haul and pull stuff, what do you want to do with this truck
would determine what engine etc. to go with.

Just remember, V-8 is like a belly button, everyone has one.

John

You really cant get much $$ out of a tired engine. If you look around you can find 235s that run good (supposedly) for $500 usually with a transmission. If it were me, I would rebuild the one you have (it will be good for the rest of your life) or find another 55 series 2 engine. There is something cool about saying it has the original motor (they were not tied to the VIN so you only have to get and engine s/n that came from 1955.2)

Joe

I rebuilt my 58 235 for $1600. Master rebuild kit was $800, Machine shop (bore to .020, install cam and bearings, clean and flux crank and block, pressure test head/block, resurface flywheel) was $600. I have the receipts and have posted the process HERE

Add on dist and misc parts I have less than $1800 from unknown engine to in-spec rebuilt.

R

John,

I have heard that a 350 was as common as a different body part that everyone has.

The 265 V-8 (available in 55-2nd on all tucks, supposedly), or even a 283 is not so common (but might cost more, rebuilt)?

It's hard to say what YOU should do. Don't know YOUR budget, don't know YOUR tastes. Saw you were doing a body off and figured you were wanting all new stuff. Don't want to get into the issues of if these trucks can go 70-80 safely. Been in that post, brutal. We won't settle the rebuild or not idea, and prices are all over the place because of area, quality of parts used and machining/replacement needed after fluxing or dye. The price I quoted for 350 was TURN KEY at Summit. Others are quoting you bare block. You can get a new "crate" motor from $1500 on up to Turn key. That's another discussion. Some buy bare bones with valve train and go to O'Reilly's and get all the other life time warranty parts....and on and on. You can also get a good non smoking, good compression, V8 for $600 and refresh it with all the pumps, carb, chains and gaskets and clean it out and FLAPS lifetime parts. Total $1000 max. These issues of 6 or V8, speed and safety and buy or build, are very hard to decide. I have had no problems with putting V8's in TF. Power Disc front, update steering, stock suspension is fine, 60's-70's 3:73 rear end fits nice, easy to do, $250. Almost any GM transmission you want will fit the block/bell housing. Use any V8 you feel is the correct for YOUR idea of a cool truck. 265, 283, 305, 327, 350 and up to BBC.

When I go to a show to look at cars, I'd rather look at the ones where someone has done some or all of their own work. So many people at shows you ask them something about the engine or car and they don't know much about, they just had a fat wallet and had it done for them.... And about 3/4 or more have a Chevy V-8 under the hood. I guess everyone has their likes and dislikes, me I go for the 6 cylinder. Though I will say I like a nice straight 8 under a hood.....

John

Ditto Whitelightning.

I roll my eyes when ppl say they 'paid' thousands for an 'original' truck (MVs mostly) and when you talk to them about it its got epoxy paint, repop parts, parts from the wrong year/make of truck.

Then when they had a problem... you try to help them but they don't have any idea what to do because they did little more than write a check and smile at the shiny paint.

I'm not into good truck lovers and bad truck lovers predicated on how much they can do. Engine building and painting is best left to someone with experience. Not an owner getting his first experience on his own truck. Not smart. Engine building not only takes knowhow, it takes a lot of equipment/tools you may only use once. To a degree that's true with painting. Stovebolters don't all have paint booths or even garages and they don't have engine building tools. Then there are guys who think they built their own engine, hate people who don't, and all they did was have the heads done, block done, valve job done, crank, cam and pistons installed and bolt it all together. We all have different levels of tastes, money, desire and experience. We all are the same truck lover/Stovebolter. If someone needs help in doing something or where to have it done we give our opinion and info. We don't need to be judgemental about all this purist, original, 6 vs 8, DIY stuff. Just your answer to the original question backed up by a reason/opinion/likes and druthers.

As far as value of your 6 moonshyn: Maybe they are not as valuable as some think? Yes, Craigslist is the place. But I will tell you, Craigslist is funny. Sometimes no one responds for a long time, then you sell it. Just keep renewing it every other day. Must have nice, well lighted, PICS!! Your price is sure fair. It will sell. If it's all together and will run, I would ask more if I were you, unless you are in the middle of nowhere, CA.

Building an engine is little more than knowing how to use a torque wrench (which cost $20) and maybe some feeler gauges. MACHINING an engine is where all the tech comes in. The most difficult part of a rebuild are the bearings. Other than that the shop manuals are step for step.

It can be daunting when you realize the if it blows up its YOUR fault... and I think THAT is bigger issue (not trusting yourself to get it right the first time) but like any skill, mistakes are the path to wisdom. If you buy a motor, or have a shop do it you are not accepting any responsibility other than writing a check (or more likely putting it on a credit card).

On my L134 I put the rear main seal in wrong... smoked a crank journal. Motor siezed up tight. $70 to clean up the journal, $8 for a new rope seal and now I will *NEVER* put in a rope seal wrong again. Lesson learned.

The dirty secret? Crate motors and shop built motors still break, come assembled wrong and fail just like one you put together.

Add to your path to wisdom that crate motors have warranty's and you could have done a whole lot more damage with a mistake and you were just lucky it seized up instead of kept going and you forgot you have a ring compressor and several other tools you forgot to mention. Like an engine hoist and an engine stand. It is a little more than knowing how to use a torque wrench after all. Other things like installing a rope seal. Of course it can be done by someone who can read but it depends on the persons overall skill and understanding and shop practices and tools. Many don't want to do it, so what? They don't need the satisfaction of saying "Me and the machine shop built that engine....twice".

Thank you, thank you, thank for all of your input!!

By the way - not all "new guy's" are guys...girls love trucks too ;-)

Not a 235, but my beloved '55 has the original 265. It got pulled for a knock (cracked piston skirt) and will br the engine that powers that truck for years to come. If the truck had come with a six, I would say the same thing. I'm rebuilding my own, as that is my skillset and my preference. Everyone has their own with both. If something more powerful than what your truck was available with makes you happy, then by all means, go for it. I know a guy with a Chrysler 440 in a '57 Lincoln. It's odd, but it makes him happy.

Right on! Sorry if you are a gal, didn't know. "Guys "in the sence of fellow Stovebolters.

guys plural
1.Plural form of guy
2.(colloquial) Persons, irrespective of their genders. Who are those guys?

You need an engine hoist to install a crate motor Every other tool can be rented (for free) from a local auto parts stores. I rented a ridge reamer rather than buying (it was a $20 part on ebay, but I would use it only once). Ditto for ring and valve compressors. You can but they pretty cheap, or rent them. I lean towards buying them simply because when you need one, the FLAPS will be closed

Warranty's are fine and all... but you pay for that. I'd rather put my own hands on it and do it myself. Other than a torque gauge, you can find ways to build an engine from parts.... go to youtube and see how people in second and third world countries rebuild motors that run for years... you would be amazed at how little you need to build a motor.

The "art" and "craft" of understanding our old trucks and the ability to work on them and have others share in the experience is what its all about here. Everyone has a different comfort level as to what he or she wants to do, but with the help of others strides forward have been taken by many people who come here. I know that I take pride in offering advise and insight to others to accomplish the task that they are dealing with at the time. For anyone to discount the time and effort it takes to do things and end up with a good result have no place around here. I'm not saying a person can't disagree, just don't talk stupid. As they say, "you can't fix stupid".
So back to the original topic, "Rebuild vs. replacing my 235". Lots of good advise has been given here, just don't take one persons banter and have it rain on your parade. Good Luck. Don

All skills are acquired. Some are rented, pay some one else to do the work. Learned, do the work your self. No path is "free". You will spend time and money getting the work done by some one else. You will also spend time and money doing it your self. Just for me and myself,I do as much as I can. Get help when I need it and pay for the things I cannot do. That mix is ever changing. When I was younger, I could lift the head all by my self. Now? I get some help. But I have learned to hone the wheel cylinders. Could not do that when I had my first truck. I can change wheel bearings and seals. Couldn't do that when I was 20 either. I can measure the clearances in the crankshaft, pistons and rods. I had to trust the machine shop before. So what you can do is a moving target. Not an ideal. Have some fun. Learn a bit and be safe.

Years ago, when I was managing an auto parts store, a guy drove up in a Porsche 911 with an Olds 455 in it. The headers looked like spaghetti, wrapped around the steering column. (Yep, the engine was in the front.)

You never know what someone will do with a vehicle until you see it. Then you just shake your head.

all I want is a T-bucket with that old miller straight 8 in it...

I've wondered why the site doesn't have a guy or gal selection. I know more and more woman who are taking an interest in old cars and trucks....

John

Welcome to the StoveBolt. We need MORE Female influence in here! Jerry

Welcome to the StoveBolt. We need MORE Female influence in here! Jerry

Yes more women to keep us from posting the same thing twice.

OK...I decided to rebuild after reading all of your advise!! I am going try to squeeze every ounce of power out of it I can. I need some advise on intake and exhaust manifolds...not sure if there really is a difference...but Fenton vs. Clifford vs. Offenhauser???

Are you going to use a single carburetor or multiple carburetors?

The Fenton exhaust headers match-up to the Fenton dual intake and to the original intake with no modifications (no grinding). You have to grind the Offenhauser - maybe someone knows about the fit of the Clifford intake.

If it is a 1955-2nd series 235, you might want to put a higher-left cam in it - the 261 cam is one option.

Single 4 barrel carb