The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Doors Repairing over-extended door damage

Guys,

Getting back into the restoration of my 1949 3800 DRW flatbed. As most old work trucks in this era, it worked hard. And more than once the door went beyond it's designed reach and creased the cab vertically. My parts truck cab has the same malady, with simply fewer dents. Of course it is also a '48, so a different cab mounting system on the cab.

Background to ask my question. So the question is, is there any way to straighten the vertical crease without major cab cutting and structural disassembly? I had thought about building something that would mount to the cab side of the door hinge mounts, mount it to a crossbar, and a push bar, then use the bar to effectively reverse the bend in the structure due to the over-extension of the door.

Thoughts, opinions, experiences, etc....

A stud welder.
Put the studs to the rear of the center of the crease, not in the lowest spot.
Put a line of studs close together and use a clamp or block to pull 5 at a time with a come-along hooked to a tree or another truck.

Don't over pull on the first pulls!

The infamous fence post crease! If you manage a good procedure document it and post it for others use.

The pain about this type of dent is that the sheet metal will be stretched. When you pull it back out, it will not magically fall back into shape. I personally would slice the panel in the center of the crease with a thin cut off wheel, pull it out to level, and slowly weld it back together. The metal removed with the cut off wheel will likely take care of the stretched metal issue.

All great suggestions. They also make patch panels to replace the entire area. Whatever you do, don't forget to address the reason why that happened in the first place.. weak or broken springs on the door hinges. Common problem on AD vintage trucks. Kits are available at most of our vendors.

Carl & Deve,

Thanks for the advice. I especially like the idea of cutting out and flattening/rewelding the panel in. Particularly since its been my experience that the patch panel thickness is much thinner than the original. *Edit, reread the comment and the slice was down the center, not cutting it out and patching it back in after fixing. Which I guess would also be an option.

So, then I have another question, in response to the weak or broken spring on the door hinge comment.....what actually causes the crease? is it the twist and torque of the door extending, where the door hinge mounting points are twisting and pulling in the sheet metal, causing the crease? Or does the crease come from the door and the cowl contacting, basically a pinch point? I guess I'm confused as to the mechanics of how the crease got there to begin with, beyond the obvious over-extension of the door. An old body man told me you have to take dents out in the reverse of how they got there.

And upon cutting off the skin to replace or flatten out the metal, what provisions should be made, if any, to ensure the structural integrity of the cab is maintained?

I picture a crease in the fender sheet metal. No structural integrity to worry about beyond just fixing it. Most times a truck gets hit/pushed in and forces the fender back and that is what makes the door hit. If it's a hinge problem, the pin/bushing is worn and changes the pivot axis centerline. If you can not get behind the crease or don't want to dis assemble fender, the pull out may work with filler applied. Welding should have a backer behind unless you are real good at it. (Either with slicing crease and welding or patch welding). The old, cheaper, pull out method is a slide hammer but leaves holes. I'll bet if you google "crease repair" and such , you'll get a Youtube or two. I've seen a guy stick his stick welder stick to the body, slide a short pipe or socket on the stick (electrode), put a vice grip on the end of the stick and slide hammer it with no holes left.(poor man's stud welder). The stud weld idea will be very risky because you WILL pull it too far and then what do you do? You can't hammer it back with no dolly behind, and as said, it's stretched already anyway. It'll be like chasing an air bubble around inside a decal. I've also read funky (in a good way) ideas on here of slicing the crease, grinding the head of a nail to fit into/behind crease slot, turn nail and pull crease back flat. Slide a washer on nail shank and pull with claw hammer? I said funky didn't I. May this will give some better ideas on that theme.

All that happens, and it happens a lot to the AD era is wind over extends the door and the doors contact with the cowl causes it. This is because 90% of all the doors out there (that hasn't been addressed) the springs on the door hinges are shot. VERY important to fix this so it doesn't happen again. If your door just opens, without a positive spring effect holding it open properly, its time to change the springs. I have fixed many of these and they are all related to bad door hinge springs. Once you have to fix these, whenever its windy, you make sure to not let go of the door just out of reflex.

Another thought.. the crease happens easily because there is no structure behind this area. So, any of the suggestions posted are great, but keep in mind re-welding must be done very carefully to avoid warping. You will never get it perfect, but when considering plastic body filler, keep the number 1/8" in mind. Make sure the low spot isn't more than an eighth of an inch to do it right.

What's springs got to do with it? It's a mechanical stop. Hinge bar hits hinge bracket. The springs (upper only) hold the door open, they have nothing to do with over travel of door. Deve: what is "wind over"?

My truck had the crease on the drivers side. I simply added plastic filler and done. The crease was minor (probably 1/8" or less) and in my mind, not worth trying to get out and causing potentially a worse situation with welding heat and future rust. Can't get behind to coat the metal to guard against rust. Heat from welding makes the metal very susceptible to future rusting (if it hasn't already taken hold).

The passenger side had very minor evidence of the door crease on the louver vent. Fortunately, I was able to straighten the louver and no filler necessary.

Filler is plenty acceptable now a days up to almost a 1/4 inch. If you get the good stuff, sometimes with fibers in it.

Bart you have to own an AD to really understand how the hinges work on them. Its why so many people have creases in their cowl panels. The hinge spring IS the stop. Most of the springs go bad or slip off their perch and so many people don't realize there even IS a spring. The doors just loosely open and close. That's not how its supposed to be. There is a noticeable, clear spring stop. If you don't have it, the hinge over extends and creases the cowl. Its just made that way. It has nothing to do with worn out hinges. A brand new hinge without the springs will crease the cowl.

The wind, as in your truck is parked such on a windy day that it blows the door open, is the most common culprit.

I watched a Youtube Video from a guy who repairs 47-54 door hinges. He said and showed all about the spring and hinge. He said the spring was to keep door open. But if you say so. As you say, I don't have AD. Just a mechanical engineer looking at the internet and thinking about it. To me it looks like the hinge bar hits the hinge mounting face plate opening or hits some solid part of the hinge. To use the stretch limit of a torsion spring for a stop would be bad design. Maybe an AD guru like DG or other can confirm.

I do that a lot myself Bart.. as you know, there is nothing like having your hands on the actual work. I have repaired twice as many hinges as I have restored these trucks. Jim Carter has a good article on his site about this issue, or he used to. So many people buy these trucks thinking its normal to have no stops. Don't take my word for it, just look one of these hinges over for yourself. Once you see how they are constructed, its obvious. Its not a very well thought out design for sure.

OK, understood. The suggestions I made, as to possible cause/reason for crease, were worn pin/hole and pushed back fender. Then you brought up the spring as the reason and I challenged that reason. I kind of still do. I need one more "AD expert", like yourself.

I don't really agree with Deve's statement above. The hinges have built in stops of heavy gauge sheet metal. But, if the door gets away from you in a heavy wind, the metal stops can bend and let the door open too far. This scenario is evident on my hinges and required repair during the hinge refurbishing.

I have always wondered why every hinge that I have taken apart had broken springs. If they play a part in stopping the door from over-extending, perhaps they get broken when the high winds force the door to over-extend.

I think the springs just break from fatigue. I don't think they act as door stops. My hinges snap against the metal stop.

They snap from over extension, then there is nothing to stop the door from completely creasing the cab. When you rebuild the hinges with the kit, you will see that the spring keeps the hinge from fully hitting its stop. Also, if the springs are in tact, they are strong enough to keep the a pretty stiff wind from overextending the door.. even if the hinges are perfect, if a 50 mph wind takes it, the actual cab will flex enough to damage the cowl. All I am saying is, don't just fix the crease, avoid further damage by putting the springs back that most people don't even know exist. Its a bad design the way the springs are put on. There isn't enough of an anchor to really make the springs stay in place through a serious event.

I'm wondering if welding on a little ear with a pin to act as a stop to catch the door before it overextends, breaks the spring, and creases the cowl (again). I have an extra set of hinges that I may tinker with and see if I can make something work. Not sure if it will clear when closing. Just a thought.

Well the later years have just such an idea..
hinge stop arm from TF/BC door hinge
Stop pin in hinge

Its a more common problem on 46 2nd thru 55 1st than people realize. Its not just the lack of springs, but also the lack of reinforcement at the door pillar. All I was really trying to say was, if you have that crease, make sure after you fix it, to not say the job is done but make sure you have a new spring kit installed on your hinges. I really didn't mean to get into a debate about whats happening. It doesn't matter at all. The two go together. If you don't believe that, you are on your own.

The spring anchors are too shallow and over the years they warble out causing a very likely failure. Broken or just slipped out of the hinge anchor causing a real miserable situation. If you don't have them securely in place, when a 30mph wind or so takes place just right, it makes for a very bad day. If the springs are good, the anchors have really clean and not warbled holes, your chances of surviving such a thing are better. Its a weak spot on our trucks that often gets overlooked.

Was this also a problem on 1946 trucks?

After having seen that crease on several A-D trucks (decades ago), I used to have a dream every so often about causing that crease on one of my trucks by driving backwards out of a garage and catching the door on the way back/out. Luckily, it was just a nightmare.

Come to western Kansas and park your truck facing north on most days. 30-40mph wind will make your worst nightmare come true. I see so many mostly 1-1/2-2 ton farm trucks that have this nasty crease in the cab. Each one of them that I have had the chance to look over had no springs in the door hinges. Then most of the owners had no idea this vintage even HAD springs. They didn't care either! They had work to do! If the truck had a crease in it, it was called a badge of honor because it still brought the wheat in from the fields.

Deve,
I had a problem with the suggestion that fatigue causes the springs to break. They don't really do much work to be prone to fatigue. Your explanation sounds more likely.
Carl

I'll snap a picture of it. Its a deep crease, more than an 1" deep. So just filling it with plastic is out of the question. Now my parts cab crease is slight, and would be a candidate for plastic. Just have to decide if I want to pull the panel off the parts cab and reinstall it. I honestly think the panel on the original cab is way beyond repair.

I fully intend to rebuild the door hinges completely. Going through the effort of a full frame off resto on this thing, would sure seem irresponsible to ignore a part that has seen significant wear in the life of the truck. Plus the difficulty, time, and expense of repairing the crease, I'd sure like to figure a way to prevent it from happening again, such as a door hinge modification such as adding a beefy stop to hopefully thwart it from ever happening.

Found this article this morning. Armed with good pictures and better information, I think I will feel confident that I can do this. My previous experience with patch panels has been, well, less than stellar and avoid them at every turn. Hopeful that the vendor mentioned has better than the average bear panels, and not more of the same poor fitting and poor quality stuff typically sold.

Maybe this will help someone else out. When I get to this point, I plan to catalog the process well with pictures and video.

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/1107cct_chevrolet_cab_repair/

I have replaced rusted out outer cowls with the replacement panels from Classicparts and they are an excellent fit.