The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Best finish for a wood bed?

My truck's old pine bed will be disassembled while getting its new paint job. The pine's in bad shape, so now would be the time to start thinking about getting a new wooden bed. I would like to find out what the recommendations are out there for good clear finishes to go on the wooden bed.

I used to use Helmsman Spar Urethane on my outdoor furniture, but the problem with that stuff is that you only get one good summer out of it and have to strip and refinish it every other year. So I'm not using that anymore.

What have you all used and have gotten good results on? I am looking for suggestions.

Also, my son, who works in the autobody field and is a painter, suggested using Acrylic Urethane clear coat that would be painted over a color coat on the body. He has noticed that when applied to wood, it dries rock-hard, and theorizes that it would last as long as it would on top of a painted metal surface, or better, because it will soak in. Well, he might have a point. What do the rest of you think about that?

I'd want something that can expand and contract with the wood. It moves WAY more than metal so a top coat that is unable to move is going to fail.

I don't think CC would 'soak in' any better than spar varnish would.
I agree the spar varnish is only good for a year or so (left out doors) but always wind up asking Why Clear? It's not Stock/original and it doesn't last long. A Black semi transparent stain would sure be easier to redo and keep looking good IMHO. At least it will soak in. If you really want natural looking wood go with turpentine/diesel/fresh motor oil like the old timers did...

Jim Carter Tech Article on bed wood type/color/etc

General information on bed-wood finishes from Mar-K

Mar-K results of testing bed wood finishes

I recently used the Mar-K like process of: 2-coat POR and then 2 coats black exterior enamel on on a 21' flat-bed pine boards - who knows how well it will hold up?

I think I will do multiple coats of linseed-oil/black-coloring on the unfinished new pine boards in a 54 pickup we are working on.

The bed boards in Advance-Design trucks were black, and it looked more like a matte/semi-gloss dark black stain rather than a glossy black paint (I have seen a garaged original truck-bed on a collector's warehouse-stored 1954 pickup with less than 20,000 documented miles).

I know that black was stock but when some people put in new wood they like to see nice new wood.
I will be using oil base polyurethane, clear rubbed on satin. No shine or gloss when dry so it looks like natural wood and doesn't show scratches like gloss. Soaks in really deep and building up 4-5 coats seals well. When it gets worn or dirty a quick sanding with 220 and wipe on another coat.
For strength and durability, fir is better than pine.

Black may be stock, but I agree with Jim. I want to see the wood that I install, not hide it with black. However, you do have to be careful about what brand of polyurethane you use, Jim, because not all polyurethane finishes are equal. Helmsman, for example, I'm sure is near the bottom of the list for endurance.

I have had very good luck with Min-Wax.
After it is well cured, I like to finish with a good coat of wax, just for the insurance.

Did you look at all the testing results at the Mar-K link?

Their best-by-far results for a natural finish was with a clear made/marketed by POR, call Pelucid.

It is nice to have comparison of a variety products using controlled application/testing.

How about Pure Tung Oil. The sun will not hurt it. Will not peel. It will soak in and protect the wood. Over time it may, as in years, need another coat. This can be done without dis-assembly.

I did my truck 6 years ago and last month I rubbed a little more Tung Oil on it. Brings out the grain of the wood and has a natural look.

I bet thats were the kero/diesel/motor oil recipe came from. Soaks right in deep easy to repeat. Not exactly factory but it is 'period' correct for working trucks and daily drivers

Pelucid does give a great finish however, it is not intended for outdoor use, which is stated both on the POR 15 site and on the can itself. It also does not last as long as spar varnish. I only got about 5 years out it before the finish failed. It started coming off is sheets on the topside of the wood. The Helmsman spar varnish I redid it with has been on it for 8 years, and is just now starting to show age. I did follow the recommendations of a local woodworker/house restoration expert when I did the refinish. He told me a minimum of 8 coats, sanding with 320 grit between coats. After it had a chance to cure, I did follow up with a coat of automotive wax to bring out the shine.

The wood finish test included two samples with Pelucid topcoated with Helmsman. They performed the best of the clear type coatings we tested, although there was evidence of failure in about a year. http://www.mar-k.com/wood_finish_testing_ii.aspx

I checked the black painted samples today and they are still without failure after 8 years exposure to Oklahoma weather 24/7.

Mar-Ktech

http://www.marine-paint.com/por-15-pelucid.htm

http://www.imperialrestoration.com/products.php?category=2

Instructions: third coat recommended for marine applications

Thanks a lot for that update! 8 years... way cool

I kid about the farmers fix of course but I think it lasted longer than a year...

Here's what the current POR 15 site states. I certainly do not mean to say that it not a good product, it is. I did get 5 years out of it, in rain, sun, thunderstorms, snow, and even hauling lumber in it. But the manufacturer seems to have changed their suggested uses for it, limiting it to primarily interior use.

5 years out of it is even better than the Mar-K tests for clears?

I will admit, my truck is garaged, so it is not in the weather 24/7. I also think that waxing the finish once it was cured, and rewaxing it when along with the rest of the truck, may have helped it last longer. I have gotten better results with the spar varnish on its own, and I personally don't believe than any of the clear finishes are going to be a permanent finish on any type of wood. They will have to be redone eventually.

The first bed boards I treated in 1997 were pine boards stained with MinWax ebony/black stain, and then 6 coats of 50% diluted MinWax semi-gloss Helmsman Spar Urethane varnish on all six sides (completely dried and then lightly sanded between coats). It has lasted fine and only started showing a little "checking" in the last two years. The truck/bed has been mostly living in a non-heated garage

Any sealer-finish is going to fail if/when any part of the "seal" on the wood develops any cracks that allow moisture to transfer in/out of the wood.

I have had bad luck with Helmsman Spar Urethane. I have a redwood picnic table that I keep clear on, and Helmsman only typically gives me about 2 good years. However I have never tried Helmsman on top of a different product, nor have I ever applied more than 3 coats. In the test I was reading, they used 8 coats and sanded the sharp corners rounder.

Clearly, I need to read those comparison tests more, when I get more time to sit down. I wish they tested an automotive paint clear coat. That stuff will last many years on car paint, so why wouldn't it do the same on top of wood?

Actually they did and it's referred to in the test. They made the point that CC lives more of a shiny finish that isn't as pleasing to most people. Something about not enough of a 'furniture' look to the wood.
I believe it come in as a close second to the Black Paint in the durability scale..

Yes they did. I hadn't read through the entire article when I mentioned that. But now I have.

That article is compelling evidence in support of painting the boards with a non-clear paint, such as Por-15. I have that paint on some metal surfaces and I know it's very tough stuff. But after 5 years, no appreciable problems on the boards. Very impressive. And apparently pine is much more durable in weather than oak is...another surprise for me.

It seems to indicate that painting the boards is by far the best for a daily driver in which you don't want to be taking apart the wood bed for refinishing every few years.

And EVERY SINGLE clear finish that was tried on the wood had deteriorated badly after 5 years when exposed to the weather. That is really disappointing. They all performed about the same as the Helmsman finish on my redwood picnic table. I was hoping for a reasonably good clear finish that would last a lot longer than 2 years, but it doesn't sound like I am going to get it.

It also sounds to me like I had better look into getting some type of tonneau cover made for my truck, if I intend to use a clear finish. I'd much rather pay for a tonneau cover than a new wooden bed every few years. I wonder if anyone makes one.

Another product I've seen that looks like a good idea for a clear-finished wood bed is a neoprene rubber mat that is cut to the size of the bed and is used when the truck is called for hauling duty, to protect the wood. As long as you don't have rain soaking underneath the pad and sitting, the neoprene mat could be left in place full time, for the ultimate in UV protection. I may have to rely on one of those two methods to keep the sun off my wood bed most of the time.

...I really wanted clear, but in retrospect, I should at least think about painting the boards. I know black is probably more original, but I wonder about other colors.

I also would have liked to see a test done on all of those same clear finishes if a good wax had been applied regularly on the surface. Has anybody done that on their clear finishes that can attest to how that has stood up to the test of time and elements???

How would you regularly apply the wax to all six surfaces/sides of each board?

On mine, I only waxed the top part that's exposed to the sun and other weather related elements. The underside, which was originally done with Pelucid, has been left alone and still looks the same as when it was originally coated.

I am just doing mine now. Used ez-rub from bedwood and parts. It is an oil rub/fortified teak and looks great so far. Two more coats in the am and I will be good.

I like the satin look of oil and I can recoat as needed.

Longbox, how old is your wood bed, since the last time you finished it? And is it parked outside, or does it have a place of honor in your garage?

Sadly, I have no room in my garage. So I need to take extra steps to protect my wood's finish. I will also go ahead and wax the upper surface that is exposed to the sun, probably with the same wax that I always use on the paint. Mother's pure carnuba wax. Unless it turns out that a good silicon-based wax would provide a superior UV shield.

I am thinking I won't use oak. I'll either use the pine bed kit I have seen sold, or else go buy my own mahogany boards and use the woodworking shop to get them shaped right. Tempted to do the mahogany. But that would have to have a clear finish for sure, just because of the beauty of that type of wood. Teak would be very good too though.

As mentioned, the finish breaks down when cracks appear. The expansion and shrinkage of the wood, along with the elasticity of the finish, are primary factors, along with UV resistance. The first link gives a table of strenght
Compare Woods
and durability of various woods and then of its stability. IPE is the most durable, readily available wood and its stability is ranked third.
The second link is to a new coating from US Coatings
US Coating
that is flexible, cross-linking to the wood.
The third link is for US Coatings Anchorseal
Anchorseal
that is applied to end cuts as soon as the cut is made. The end cut is the most vulnerable entrance for moisture.
The fourth link is for House Of Hardwoods in Los Angeles,
House of Hardwood
where my truck is being worked on. Scott gave me a quote last year of custom milling 5/4 IPE, grade 1, kiln dried and milled to the profile on MAR-K's site, with all corners 1/16" radius (coatings adhere better to a radius than a sharp edge, reduced chnace of cracking) and sealing the ends at cutting for $500 plus shipping. For those wanting a non-original, non painted but durable finish, you may want to cosider these factors.

My question for the group is more about original finishes, in regards to my 1956. The fifth link is from Jim Carter's site
Jim Carter Site - Bed
where he states (at bottom) that beds were black up to Task Force 1955. After that they were sealed and often painted body color. Does that mean they could have been painted black also or were they all body color? In all the searching of images on the web, I have only discovered one project that when the plywood laying on top the bed was removed, the bed was painted red. The PhotoBucket links.
Anyone have any info on this?
Thanks, Joe
Painted Bed 1
Painted Bed 2

I saw an interesting episode of Overhaulin where Chip did a 1954 AD. What was the most interesting about it was how he did the bed wood. He took Oak, and to make it look old and antique, he painted it black, then removed the paint with Acetone. The black stained parts of the wood to make it look really old and original. (even tho we know original was tar black). Point is, even tho its not original, if you are stuck on oak, its a pretty cool way to go.

I was at a car show yesterday and one lady had a '55 Chevy truck. Her wood bed was weathered but looked great, because she used something like Penofin on it. Periodically, every couple of years, she just reapplies more Penofin over the old.

You know something? I had a cedar sided house in Colorado that I used to use Penofin on. That was 8 years ago and it STILL looks good. Has anyone thought of using a product like that? It provides a real warm satin finish, that slightly darkens the wood like a stain, but is clear.

Throwback Thursday, gents!
Mr Tim, any chance you could share pictures of these boards? I've seen the tests & talked to Mar-K, but I've also worked with wood for 20 years... I'd like to see the flat bed pine boards you mention strictly out of curiosity.

I'm also POR-15'in/black paintin' my truck boards in the method Mar-K (and yourself) used... Not looking for an anomaly in the method's success, but the geography and storage difference might show something (?). Thanks,

Brad

My COE bed sat outside from April-Nov for three years since painting the ~19 ft boards in 2012. I have not seen and color changes and no splitting/checking of the boards (only painted on the exposed up-side surfaces).

To help prevent checking/splitting on the undersides of the boards, we sprayed the underneath with 2 coats of POR-15 a year after the top of the boards were painted using the Mar-K-method.

Here are some photos and text of the painting steps, that I posted on the oldGMCtrucks.com forum after the painting day:

=========================================================

2 July 2012
oldGMCtrucks.com Discussion Boards

54/55 350 COE bed painted

It's been five years since I obtained this Z-Series 2-ton COE that Grigg Mullen dragged (flat-towed) from WA state to NY (by way of Macungie, PA).

The front and rear wheel bearings are all new; all brake parts (pads, wheel/main cylinders, and hydrovac) are new, except for the lines; and, the engine now runs fine.

The main electrical/mechanical things that need to be attended-to is the SM-420 transmission needs to have the front cover replaced (easy) and the front tires look a little rough/old. All electrical wiring will be replaced but I have not decided if it will be 6v positive ground or 12v negative ground.

All sheet metal has been stripped, repaired and primed. All sheet metal should get finish painted this summer (Red body and White grill; and, standard two slightly metallic brown interior colors). This will look like a work truck.

For about 5 years, the COE has been in a large truck storage garage at my friend Dave's grandfather's house about 15 miles away. The drive train and bed are still on the chassis but everything else has been removed.

On Sat/Sun, we brush-and-roller painted the weather-worn non-GM flat/stake bed (that had never been painted/preserved).

http://1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/COE-Photos/bed-paint/1-before-bk.jpg

The above BEFORE photo is from the rear of the 8' wide by 18' long bed. All boards, except for the right-most board, are tongue and groove. Dave torch-cut off the forward head-board "cage" and the rear "bumper". We will custom make replacements.

We cleaned off splintered wood and cleaned out all grooves between boards.

Dave and I were dressed in our Sunday best, throw-away, painting gear, with almost all of our bodies covered from toe-to-neck (even though 90+ degree weather was expected). Notice the duct-taped rip-repair on my paints, and plastic gloves going over flannel-shirt long-sleeve ends.

http://1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/COE-Photos/bed-paint/2-before-fr.jpg

Here is what we used as paint:
Coat 1 - POR-15 semi-gloss Rust Preventative Paint (wait 2-3 hours for firm tacky surface)
Coat 2 - POR-15 semi-gloss Rust Preventative Paint (wait 2-3 hours for firm tacky surface)
Coat 3 - POR-15 Chassis Coat Black (let set overnight)
Coat 4 - BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA Exterior Semi-Gloss Enamel

Process:
1. Prior to rolling-on the first coat, we "cut-in" with brushes between each board (to get to the now-exposed-by-weathering tongue-and-groove "openings"/separations).
2. Apply with rollers the first three coats (liberal application, rolling about three feet front-to-back, side-to-side, and again front-to-back.
3. Before applying the 4th/final coat, "cut-in" with brushes between each board and then apply with rollers.

We applied coats outside until about 9am each morning. Other coats were applied inside of a large truck garage (30 ft ceilings) with the front door/wall opened.

The final result is not a show-quality finish, but the surface is thoroughly covered and sealed. It does not look too bad/good - but, who cares.

http://1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/COE-Photos/bed-paint/3-bed-bk-4th-coat.jpg

The AFTER photo above is from the rear (the blanket-cover on the front is over the front-frame/engine/transmission)

The AFTER photo below is from the front. Note the "daylight" between the left two boards - that last board on each side was not tongue-and-grooved.

http://1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/COE-Photos/bed-paint/4-bed-fr-4th-coat.jpg

We (meaning, Dave) will fabricate a metal front-end bed-edge cover and headboard. And, we/Dave will fabricate a rear-cover/bumper, light-license bar/holder.

The deck is about 50" off the ground. I will obtain an aluminum ramp system for loading and unloading my 1/2 ton trucks. The ramps and stands will be stored under the bed (no piece weighs more than 50 lbs)

This is the biggest toy I have ever owned. I probably should not have undertaken this project; but, so it goes.

======================================
http://www.mar-k.com/wood_finish_testing_ii.aspx
======================================

Z-series GMC 350 COE
1954 Chevrolet 3106 & 3104

Thanks for the information; I couldn't help but laugh when I saw your pictures- I've been on ships with smaller deck space than that flatbed! It must have taken the six quart pack of the POR-15 to coat the boards twice.

Your statement, "we sprayed the underneath with 2 coats of POR-15 a year after the top of the boards were painted" is the basis for my curiosity in utilizing the POR-15 as a sealant, and the reason I wanted to see your pictures. If it (POR-15) seals wood fiber as well as it seals the places I have used it on metal, I seriously think the wood boards need to have an (unknown) amount of time set aside to 'breathe'... In application, this would mean that one side of the board was left bare for this unknown amount of time.

This has not been addressed as far as I have found; again, this is just my curiosity and wood working experience talking. My common sense says, "it's a blame truck bed, who cares?"

Brad

Stepping in, I used white oak-not red, and sealed it on all sides with 2 coats of CPES (a thinned epoxy) then 6 coats of Epiphanes spar varnish on all surfaces, each coat thinned slightly less than the one before it. Starting with thinned 1:4. Scuff between coats, the last coat is pure varnish. I got the advice of a veteran wooden boat restorer. We'll see how it holds up, but i think it should do pretty well.

Welcome to Stovebolt, GreginPa-

When was this (how long ago)? Mar-K would be interested in hearing your results should they be different than their tests:
http://www.mar-k.com/wood_finish_testing_ii.aspx
http://www.mar-k.com/final_summary.aspx
http://www.mar-k.com/june_2010_update.aspx

Brad

We painted the bottom of the wood later because we had to do it that way.

The wood was probably 50+ years old/aged (and the truck had resided in a high desert most of its life).

If I do the same with the replacement wood for my 54 pickup, that "new" wood has been kiln dried. I'll paint all sides during the same time period - probably painting the top last?

Thanks Brad. I finished the wood in September so not long ago. I used the same method on a black walnut kitchen counter 10 years ago and it's looking as good as the day I did it today, albeit no real exposure to UV but lots of water and cleaners etc...
BTW, I used Mar-k's summary notes- that's why i did 2 coats of CPES. The maker of CPES also advised me to do the same. You do one coat and let it cure for a couple days, then apply a second coat and top coat within 8 or so hrs with the first varnish coat. I also paid attention to filling the end grain really well. BTW buy more than you need you don't want to run out half way through that second coat.

Good point... I've never used this stuff on wood. The way the truck frame drank/soaked it up, I'd better get more from Summit.
Thx
Brad