The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop What is start up procedure for 1951 truck?

I have a 1951 chevy truck that I have had for about 12 years and I am ashamed to say it has been setting in the back yard since I got. I brought it home with big hopes and dreams but I was young and didn't realize that I didn't have the resources to start working on it. The guilt has gotten to me and I have to at least start getting the old girl in shape. The guy i bought it from said it hadn't been started since about 1978.
My question is where should I start when trying to get this old girl running.
I haven't really been around old trucks all that much. I did turn the front of the motor by hand so it doesnt apear to be seized up. I am a little curious about the shift pattern, it's a column shift.
Do I need to do anything to it before I try to start it. If anything has to be done to the motor or clutch or tranny I would like to know so I don't cause any damage.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

Fresh fuel, don't trust the fuel tank or lines.

Fresh oil and change filter if it has one.

Rebuild the carb or replace it with good know working carb.

Clean and set the points.

Fresh battery and clean cable ends.

Flush the coolant system and fill with water, no need for coolant yet. Pull block drain plug and use coat hanger wire to clean out the block. You need clear water running out. Wouldn't hurt to pull thermostat to avoid air lock and overheating.

Pull valve cover and check for loose or damaged parts,
Rotate engine by hand watching rocker movement and push rod movement

If you trust yourself, pull the distributor after marking its location, and prime the oiling system with electric drill and pump driver (cut off screwdriver works). Watch for oil at the rocker shaft while spinning the oil pump. Think of the vacuum advance unit on the distributor as a arrow with the vacuum hose at the feather end of the arrow. The "arrow" is pointing the direction you rotate the oil pump. If you take the time to mark the distributor housing location accurately along with rotor location and keep track of the motor rotations, you can replace it and be right back in time. Motor needs two full revolutions to stay in time from where you pulled the distributor. Clean the block and distributor house really well and small chisel mark on both will be all you need.

Transmission in neutral, back tires off ground if theres any doubt about clutch sticking or hanging up. Check for oil in trans, you can change it later if you want.

Once oil is up to the rocker arms and shaft and you have fresh fuel in a good carb, try and start it up.

Joe

Joe gave some great advice.

Here's a Tech Tip that might help:

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/Dead%20Engine%20Start/

Best of luck to you, Stucknut. Keep us up on your progress!

I would expect the fuel pump to be no good too. I would replace the carb, fuel pump and maybe the coil, plus do all the things above.

You are about to begin a somewhat challenging endeavor. The reward of hearing it run after you follow all of the suggestions, and troubleshooting problems not mentioned will outweigh the challenges by about 10 to 1! There are few things in life more rewarding than bringing one of these old engines back to life. Just remember, these engines want to run. You just have to provide a few things to allow it to do what it was meant to do.

Shift pattern should be a sideways "H" with up left Rev, low left 1st, up right 2nd, low right 3rd. Some people put a little oil or tranny fluid in each plug hole. But that means you have to clean the plugs a few times unless they are left out while turning engine over, which is also not a bad idea. It'll smoke a while after plugs are put back in

Most of us started this procedure from a stuck motor so you are lucky!

all of the above is good stuff .....!
Just to expand on the mention of rocker arm movement;
If it hasn't run since 1978, then assume
at least one or more valves could be stuck ..... before you go
cranking on the motor at all, ensure that all valves can move first.
Maybe even remove & clean the rocker assembly and check each valve stem for movement and inspect pushrods.
A little penetrant soaking in for a while and a little persuasion at the valve stem
can reveal a problem before it is magnified by cranking.

thank you everyone lost of good info. I seem to be having a little trouble getting into neutral. Is it likely that the clutch or trainy are bad or is it from just setting for so long? What should i check first?

Not sure of you have done it, but you may have to put the rear tires up in the air and try and move the rotate the driveline a little, kind of moveing the tranny gears to loosen them up and maybe help that way......

depending on if its original, you will have to purchase a new 8 volt battery. Yeah, 8 volts works pretty well in place of the old 6 volt one. It gives a little more power to the starter without burning out the light bulbs or changing any of the gauge readings. If you have a tractor supply around, you can get it there. Personally, I hope the previous owner did you a favor and swapped it all to 12v. But I doubt it. I wonder if this post opens up a can of worms! LOL

Stucknut,

Is your truck still 6v, or has it been converted to 12v?

A 8 volt battery in a 6 volt system is nothing more than a patch. Fix the 6 volt system, you'll be farther ahead in the long run.

Any luck yet? Most likely just stuck from setting, could be clutch stuck to flywheel, gears stuck to shaft, shift linkage rusted, brakes rusted, all kinds of stuff can happen. Best to get the rear wheels up and start rocking them back and forth to see if you can break the trans free while someone rocks the shifter. Lube everything you can see and check trans fluid. I guessing that the upper shaft of the trans is higher then the oil level and the gears are stuck. I wouldn't force it until its the last resort.

Does the engine turn over easy?
While turning, does the output of the trans turn?
( it will be hard to see with a torque tube, pulling the speedometer cable
will let you watch the gear turn )
Does the clutch pedal move OK?

Keep us posted,

Joe

Don,

Of course, you are correct. A 6v system works fine with the correct sized battery cables (both cables) and clean connections/grounds.

I'm with Don and Tim.
An 8 volt battery is problematic, with the necessity of adjusting a volt regulator to 8 volts and the shortened life of bulbs and more.

I saw farmers using 8v in the 60s/70s but it was because they were using 12v battery cables and/or they had 8v tractor batteries laying around.

Guys,
I'm back at this after many years away. My previous mechanical experience would have me suggest that Deve pull the plugs, squirt some penetrating oil in the plug holes and then rock the crankshaft back and forth until is seems easy to turn over? Checking for stuck valvetrain components makes a ton of sense, too. Once you've determined all the valve train is funtioning then I'd suggest he ground the plugs to a clean surface for a good ground and spin it over some. Keeping an eye on the rocker arms for signs of oil should save him having to prime the oil pump and having to mess with removing the distributor, timing, etc.?
Firing up an engine that has been sitting this long has plenty of potential for issues and it appears you folks are giving great advice! As others have suggested...spraying everything that might be stuck with some good penetrating oil may save other issues from occuring? Assuming that EVERYTHING is stuck might be a great place to start.

I use WD40 for everything. I just saw an episode of horsepower TV where they used WD40 to spray entire door panels to preserve them for upcoming paint work. LOL! WD!!! Forever!! Muahahahahahaha!

Oh, and.. as someone who has devoted his entire life to electronic theory, engineering, etc.. Its not about saving your ailing 6 volt system, its about pepping it up with no downsides whatsoever. No readjusting the regulator, no changing anything. The engineers designed these trucks in the day with tolerances. Plus 2.5 volts, minus .5 volts. Even the charging system will keep up just fine. All of the bulbs, electronics throughout the system have these same tolerances and will last forever on 8 volts. Its just a little known thing that lights people up because they don't reason that it makes any sense.

Just like those who don't realize 6 volts takes twice the amperage (of 12). 8 volts takes that much less. Easier on everything in the system. But, I am not very reasonable in my thinking that ALL vehicles in North America should be converted to 12v. No farmer back in the day was happy on a cold winter day with a 6v system. Now that we all have climate controlled garages we all of the sudden have religion on keeping it stock. My dad was the Kansas farmer who cussed every time he tried to start up the old 1950 Chevy truck in the winter time. After you understand electronic theory fully, its a no brainer to help keep the system tweaked for optimum performance. It was funny to hear him talk about how he had to hand crank the truck in 15 degree weather. As a teenager, I felt it was funny! He said it about did him in. Most of the older guys I talk to feel the very same.

6 volts was a step in the chain to find the sweet spot. Turned out that 12 volts was it. I applaud the keep it stock concept and I support it fully, but understand why and what the implications are. Most show trucks I have seen at car shows, if they let you look under the floor, there is an 8 volt battery in their stock truck. Even the 6 volt charger works perfect with it.

I knew it would open up a can of worms, but so many people don't understand electronics so they make stuff up. Don't trust me, do your own research, but there is always room to learn something new. I learn new stuff from you guys all the time!

I think what prompted me to start some of this was the idea of converting your amp gauge to a volt gauge. You DO realize that a 12 volt battery can be almost totally dead and still read 12 volts? A 60 amp 12 volt battery would need about 500 milliamps left in it to still read 12v. Nevermind that you have no idea what your charging system ratio is doing. Sorry, im sure I have said too much, promise not to hold it against me!

I am not an electrical engineer but if you are only charging a 8 volt battery with a regulator set at 7.5 volts(the charging rate of a 6 volt system)you are never going to fully charge a 8 volt battery. A battery that is not kept fully charged is not a healthy battery and will fail prematurely.

It has to do with voltage under load. 7.5 is more than enough. Batteries also have tolerances. The 8 volt battery in my ton and a half has been in there for 3 years getting regular service and its a 2 year battery. Bummer... 2 year battery? Tractor Supply doesn't have a lot of faith in its batteries.

Maybe they know people will only charge them at 7.5 volts

"It has to do with voltage under load." maybe you should explain that -- to the Trojan battery company, who would disagree with the proposition that 7.5V will fully charge an 8V battery ... modern battery chargers have stages, bulk charge [current is sent to batteries at the maximum safe rate they will accept until voltage rises to near (80-90%) full charge level], absorption charge [steady high voltage, current drops as internal resistance increases], and float charge [maintenance trickle charge at rated battery voltage, or 8.5V in this case], most 6V chargers can not achieve a float rate of 8.5V, although most could charge an 8V battery to 80-90%

I think some people who think they understand electronics make stuff up, other folks with extensive electrical/electronics experience, who have to spend over $1,000 for a bank of batteries, and another $2,000 for an inverter/charge controller, not too mention the cost of PV panels, investigate the specifics to insure none of those are a frequently recurring cost

8V batteries are sold at Tractor Supply because they're tractor batteries, but even there it was the Ford tractors that benefited from them, and really only in the harshest winters, Chev trucks work fine on 6V if the proper cable sizes are used [#0 minimum, 00 preferably] rather than the standard 12V cables [#2, or even 3] found most places now, which is where "voltage under load" is relevant .... I don't think I've ever seen a "show car" with an 8V battery, although some rarely used trailer queen museum pieces might take that route, and no doubt they've adjusted the regulator and/or have an 8V charger at home

to fully charge a lead acid battery, you want to charge to 2.4 volts per cell, an 8V battery has 4 cells, that means it needs a charging voltage of 9.5V - a 6V charger will not maintain an 8V battery, a 12V charger can be used on an 8V battery, if put on trickle charge [2-5amps] for maybe 30 minutes, then allowed to 'rest' 30 minutes - repeat until the 8V battery shows 9.5V while charging, and 8.5V after resting for 3 hours

but now this thread should go to the Electrical Forum

Bill

Yeah, no, leave the discussion here since I hijacked the poor guy's original thread. All he was trying to figure out was the proper startup procedure!

Its good though to hear everyone's opinions on battery usage. Electricals is commonly one of the most mysterious parts of the truck for some. My dad always said it got so bad with the old truck battery, they just cranked it by hand. That's pretty bad!

Interesting topic and hijack
My experience w/Stovebolts is very limited but I'm no cherry when it comes to starting and running a 6v tractor in 4 distinct seasons for many many yrs
I ran an old 48 Ferguson TE20 yr round with 6v pos ground elecrics and once the temps dropped below freezing even a fully charged battery would hardly spin the engine w/straight 30w oil.
My trick was to squirt a good shot of gas directly into the carb (side draft 1bbl), full choke, 1/2 throttle then spin. It would catch maybe 85% of the time on the 1st try. If it didn't I'd have 2 or 3 more repeat process try's before the battery would need rechargeing.
I often thought about going w/an 8v battery but felt it would burn the charging system up. 12v conversions are big down my way. But I kept it 6v since my trick generally worked.
Again, great discussion and to the OP sorry about encouraging the hijack
Dave

Anyone?

Bill is right on.
See this site
http://carbatteryworld.com/car-battery-voltage/
It describes in detail how to Check Battery Voltage and State of Charge. Yes, I know it is talking about a 12V battery but the principle is the same for 5V.
Harold

clutch disc is likely frozen to the flywheel, remove bottom dust cover and watch while someone pushes the clutch

Bill

Basically, the idea of 8 volts is well known among show truck 'trailer queen' enthusiasts because when the judge asks you to turn on the lights, check the gauges, start the truck, etc, everything is much more peppy, brighter, and there is no downside. In all of this, I just checked the voltage of my 8 volt that's been in my 1-1/2 ton for 3 years and its 8.37 volts and it starts up so nicely. As an electrical engineer, it makes total sense to me, but just wanted to share my experience. NO changing regulator settings, no nothing. Just change the battery and enjoy.

I have gotten a few PM's about this site from others who watch and listen in, who say that there is a short list of people who have christened themselves as experts and if you differ from them, just kill yourself now! Stop this crap now before you end up losing lots of people who are just looking for honesty.

Personally, I depend on ALL of you for good advice. I really rely on this site because I am at the frame-up (frame) stage and its important to hear from each of you. Trashing others opinions isn't what this site is about. I got the best hydraulic valve lifter adjustment procedure EVER from one of you who said to me in PM that you just cant be honest here. If you do, you will be chastised and embarrassed. Im here now, so I assure you, from this point forward, your NAMES will be called out if you engage in this trash. Please keep it friendly and helpful. I sure hope we understand each other. Its about helping people looking for answers, not being superior. An idea is floated, your response should be COOL! Nice twist! Have you considered the downsides of... Some people are still learning. Some stop learning and move to other avenues when they are shut down. Not me compadres. Hopefully nobody ever again.

too bad the original poster questions are getting lost in all this.

Lots of good info here. I enjoy everyone's input. Learning a lot here i love this site!

Lots to learn and share here.
Just don't take anyone's info, even mine, as the gospel truth.

Back on topic, did you get truck to move yet?

Someone suggested a stuck clutch to flywheel, could be stuck linkage on trans, or internal trans gears stuck. Maybe a pry bar to the clutch plate will free it up.

Joe

I think the back brake is locked up so I have to fix that first.

I had to remove the top of the trans. Shifter was stuck. Almost 20 years sitting. Undid the cover on the floor, cleaned the crud off the top and removed the bolts. Cover popped off with a good slap on the shifter. WD40 on the linkage under the cover. Worked the shifter until it was free. set the top back on after sliding the shift forks. Line up the fingers and it went from gear to gear just fine. Put it into neutral. and turned it over by hand. All was free so I tried to start it. Worked fine. Then I rebuilt each wheel cylinder and the master cylinder. Then when that was working I drove it up and down the drive way. Fun!

don't assume you have good ground to crank it up, remove your grounds and use wire brush or drill or hand wire brush down to bare metal or it'll crank weak and won't run

I had a 48 1-1/2 ton that had water filled to the top of the trans. What a mess! After draining and cleaning and adding the proper oil, worked flawlessly and still does. These trucks take a lot of abuse and come back for much more.

oh my
oh my goodness!

This makes perfect sense. Now that I know I CAN buy an 8volt.
Thanks for the info. I must have rewired a dozen cars for guys from scratch.
WHo knew the trouble I could have saved myself!! Oh well, the zenier diode market
will survive without me buy any more of them!!

This is why I always listen to the helpers at work. Someone might have a better idea.

Do yourself a favor and do some searching about the 8 volt battery. The bottom line is its not a good thing to use.