The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Poor running 216

So this has been an ongoing battle with the 216. Its a 47 216 with a Cater W1 that was replaced by the PO and never run before I bought the truck. It has new fuel lines and a cleaned and sealed tank. The truck starts but it puts out a ton of gray smoke and smells like gasoline out the tailpipe along with little black crud if you put your hand under it. I replaced the points, plugs, cap and wires because the ones it came with were in rough shape. That cut down the smoke a fair amount. It also won't idle below about 800 rpm. If you just start it and let it sit the smoke coming out the tailpipe isn't that bad but if you gun it and let it idle again it smokes much worse. The weird thing is if you turn it off and let it sit for about 5 minutes before turning it on again it doesn't smoke at all until its been running for 2 or 3 minutes even if you gun the motor. I opened the float bowl and checked the float height and it was set to a half inch. Next I hooked a vacuum gauge up and its pulling about 20 inches with a fast flick up and down maybe a half inch of Hg at 900 rpm. Under WOT it drops to about 8 inches and quickly closing the throttle peaks it at about 26 inches. I checked the timing by lining the BB up in the timing window to check where the rotor lines up and the 6 o'clock in the cap goes to the #1 plug, but if you line the rotor up perfectly with the cap going to the #1 plug you cannot move the distributor farther CCW at all it just stops. There is a ton of movement CW though. Distributor off a tooth or more? Off 180 degrees? The exhaust sounds like its missing at a steady rate. I tested the dwell and no matter how I adjust the points I can't get it below 55. I'm using an old Penske multi-meter to test the rpm and dwell and hoping its right/still works. For the dwell I hooked it to the positive on the distributor (one facing closest to fender) and then to the negative on the other side of the distributor. The vacuum seems pretty good and it revs and idles fine, except for the slight missing, above 900 rpm so I don't know why it smells like unburnt fuel so badly. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

it wont run at all if 180deg out.
Have you released the clamp at the base of the dist, , really , with that loose it should go a full circle , (till the low tension wire gets bound up).
not idling may be over rich , hense the gas smell. have you adjusted the idle mixture screw?

steady miss may be a burnt or stuck valve , or too close valve lash.

I loosened the flat head clamp screw that allows you to adjust the timing if thats the same clamp you are talking about. I didn't put a ton of force in it CCW but it moved CW very easily and smoothly. I have adjusted the idle mixture screw in conjunction with the idle level. I did what the manual said which I think was tighten it and then back it out 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 turns. Playing with that and the idle set screw i couldn't get it below 800 without it starting to lope. Haven't checked the valves so that might be the next place to look.

The smoke issue sounds like leaky rings/smooth worn cylinders to me. You could try some Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas/oil and run a tank or two of gas through it and see if the rings clean themselves up to hold better pressure, but it sounds old to me. A compression along with a leak down test might give you some clues.

Mine hasn't idled below 800 for as long as I can remember, (I have had it for 30 years) they all leave soot, and the gas smell you have is one of the reasons they get such horrible gas mileage, you could almost run another engine off the exhaust. To adjust the timing ignore the octane selector, the(the 1/2" bolt in the block with the little numbered scale attached to it.) the horizontal screw that is behind the distributor is what you need to loosen. It doesn't matter where the rotor is pointing when you are on #1 tdc as long as that is where the #1 wire comes out of and all the remaing wires go in the correct order. I had a W-1 on my truck for about a month, and went back to the rochester. I am not sure if I even had the right W-1 anyway. You don't have the distributor loose if it only goes one way, the distributor moves in the block for vacumn advance.So it will move some and then stop it should move ccw a bit, but return cw and stop, that is what the little vacuum diaphragn works on. The smoke is probably as stated, worn rings or most likely valves as mine did the same thing, it was bad enough no one would get near me, didn't have to worry about tailgaters I can assure you of that. It had set mostly for about 5 years and it took a couple of tanks of gas to get it to run right. and also as stated you could try adjusting the valves, and the compression/leakdown test. I don't know the exact intensity of the gas smell, but I think you are becoming acclimatized to the new modern engines, get behind any of the 50-70's cars and they stink. I have 71 mustang as well and it is the same way.

It sounds like you have more than one thing going on.
First, the color of the smoke: if its gray, it could be water. How does your oil look?
Milky? Oil in water is cracked block, cracked head or blown head gasket.
Second, the flicker on you vacuum test could be a stuck valve. I would guess it would not like to idle lower than what you have.
These two together would give you your symptoms.
As Caso says a compression and leak down will give you more info.
Good luck. Hope this helps. Let us know as you go along.
Mark

Dark colored exhaust is usually a rich condition. Oil consumption is usually indicated by a bluish white exhaust. The unburnt fuel smell and carbon out the tail pipe indicates carburetor issues as well. I would look at the carb before jumping through too many hoops chasing my tail.

I'd adjust the valves, and then do a compression test.

So I guess adjusting valves in conjunction with a compression leak down test is the next task. Does anyone recommend a compression or leak down tester that doesn't break the bank and has the 10mm adaptor? I don't have either but they would probably be good additions to the tool menagerie. Solved the mystery of the distributor not moving CCW. I had the cap off when I was playing with it and the cap hold down clip was catching the oil dipstick.... Hadn't touched it since last night in its "stuck" position. I do have a sneaking suspicion it might be the carb though since it runs fine sometimes and a leaking ring would probably run poorly consistently.

Leaky rings only affect your smokey situation. Irratic running is gas or elec in nature.

Excellent trick with the dist clip. I haven't done that for about 40yrs

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

A useful link to vacuum gauge readings.

Well i finally got around to doing a compression test on the ol' rig. The numbers I got were these; 90, 105, 100, 120, 105, 105. I thought new these were at about 110 so I don't know where the 120 is coming from. I double checked all the cylinders. Engine gurus please give me some advice!! The motor has never been rebuilt as far as I can tell. It doesn't really leak oil anywhere except out of the rear main seal area.

Dusty, Hopefully in 40 years I'll be able to say that too . On the topic of the vacuum gauge it is giving me very similar readings to the "high performance" example but I have about 20 inches of vacuum and I have a needle shake almost identical to that.

So I think I found part of the problem. I pulled the valve cover while it was running and found 5 bent pushrods dancing around... I have a complete gasket set laying around so I've decided to just pull the head and see what's going on. Anyone seen bent pushrods causing smoke?

PS the new melling pushrods from autozone (MPR-30) don't snap into the lifters like the original ones do. Is that normal or are they the wrong pushrods?

What do you mean snap. The push rods sit on top of the lifters.

What I mean by snap is the old ones, when the spring tension is released and the pushrods can wiggle, if you move them up and down it pulls the lifter up with it. The new pushrods just sit on top. You also have to give the old ones a decent tug to get off the lifter and when it comes out it makes a little click.

That is not a problem. The bottom of the new push rods will wear in and do the same thing.
They are the same length aren't they?

I just checked they are the same length for sure but the end that goes into the lifter is a little smaller in diameter on the newer ones. Before I proceed I guess I would like to check and make sure this is a 216. The number on the pad is EBA 46778 i. I was looking at casting numbers online and it the 47 suffix is supposedly EA not EBA... Anyone know what this motor is?

EBA prefix for 1947 3100 regular engine - 216