The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Canadian insurance during restoration

Hi, folks.

I'm looking for some help from Bolters with vehicles registered in British Columbia or Ontario.

This week I flew out to BC from my ON home and purchased a '53 Chevy 3100 that was earlier modified and was currently registered and insured in BC.

-- I transferred the ownership into my name and bought a 3-day temporary permit from BC which included ICBC insurance to drive it to the custom rod shop near Vancouver, BC, where some major upgrades will be done.

-- When the work is done, I will fly back to BC to pick up my dream ride and drive home to ON.

1. During the work at the rod shop in BC, I cannot purchase the government-run ICBC restoration/garage insurance because I am an ON resident without a BC address. They said I should have left the title in the name of the original owner until I had the custom work completed. But that idea put up a whole lot of red flags for me...

2. My private ON car insurer will not insure me because the vehicle is not yet registered in ON. It would need to be here first for that to happen as I would need to also have an ON Safety Certificate. They will not insure "unfit" vehicles; only vehicles registered as roadworthy.

3. When I drive home from BC I can again buy a temporary permit and insurance from ICBC but I will only be covered for the book value of a 53 Chevy pickup and that is next to nothing. I estimate the truck will be worth about $40,000 when done. ICBC said they could do an agreed-value type appraisal etc. but they said that would take at least 2 months once the vehicle is completely done.....

Does anyone have a solution for me? I called a Hagerty rep on their 1-800 line and he said they couldn't help because I was an ON resident with a vehicle registered in BC....

The vehicle is at the rod shop now and I have absolutely NO comprehensive insurance on it. I'm basically self-insured.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I'm hopeful that someone else has navigated through a similar problem.

I think you should talk to an AutoPlan agent rather than ICBC directly, if the vehicle is registered in your name in BC you should be able to at least get 'storage' insurance and use the address of the shop .... although I would expect any good shop to have insurance and have something to that effect on any agreement you've signed [you have signed some type of work order hopefully!] .... for the drive home, you should be able to purchase more than minimums for any portion of the insurance, or check for something from Canadian Direct

Bill

I would let an insurance agent sort that out if I were you. I worked on my truck for 5 years with very little insurance value on it. When it was almost done, I had it appraised and insured for a more realistic value.

Be sure to get an appraisal done before you spend too much more money on it. When it's time to register it in Ontario and is worth $40,000, they will require you to pay 13% tax ($5200) plus the licensing fee.

Hy Waves2275, I have five trucks on my property purchased from outside B.C., I cannot even get registration in B.C. on these trucks until they PASS a safety inspection! I purchased a "binder of insurance" to drive these trucks home from where I purchased them, no problem. I also have storage insurance on the trucks that are worth such insurance, again no problem. I purchased the insurance from the same broker I purchase my I.C.B.C. insurance from. I think you need to speak to an insurance broker to get the coverage on your truck you're seeking. I will contact my insurance broker tomorrow and see if I can get you any answers.

Thanks 53 Panel. I've had agents working on it but no luck so far.

I already paid the BC tax of 12% on my purchase and was told by MTO here that I will owe them 1% more when I register in Ontario because rate here is 13%. They are not concerned with the appraised value after the work has been done because I'm paying taxes on those goods and services as the job progresses.
Hope I've got that right!
Sure wouldn't be fair to be paying tax twice...

UPDATE: Canada Revenue Agency has started a formal investigation into this issue for me and will issue a ruling......

Thanks, 3B, but the difference is that YOU are a BC resident; I'm not... ICBC would sell me storage insurance IF I had a permanent BC address.

Love to hear from your agent, though...

Too bad the provinces make things so tangled between them. Need a national standard.

try hagerty or wheels insurance for a qoute...

You might try a google search for collector car insurance - I came up with Grundy, Aviva, and Kanetix - worth a shot. Ideally, they would issue an " agreed value " policy, although driving the truck back from B.C. to Ontario may raise a few flags. They usually want the mileage kept low.

I use Grundy and there are no mileage limits with my policy but it's "pleasure" driving, to and from events and to and from repair driving only. It can't be my daily driver.

Thanks, Britcon.

To update you after phone calls this morning: Grundy does not offer coverage in Canada, their adviser in Philadelphia just told me; Aviva is the company that works here with Hagerty and I've put in a call to Hagerty Canada's top guy Nigel Matthews for help; Kanetix limits mileage on Classic insurance to 200 km per year and doesn't even have a phone number to call, doing everything with an email form that says they'll respond within 2 days!!!!

I'll let everyone know what Hagerty ultimately says and appreciate any other advice that you can offer.

Almost to the point where you might consider shipping to Ontario and having work completed there. I'd be a little nervous taking off on a 2700 mile journey with a fresh build - there are bound to be a few issues to iron out.

Thanks, Britcon.

I just spoke with Hagerty head office in Michigan and the bottom line is this:
1. If I had a permanent residence in BC, they could cover me.
2. If I had the vehicle already here and registered in Ontario, they could cover me.
3. But they CANNOT cover a vehicle registered in BC and owned by a guy with a permanent address in Ontario. (They do not have such restrictions between US States. It only happens between provinces, said Hagerty rep, because BC law says that insurance in that province can only be sold to BC residents.......)

What a schmozzle.......

you can easily get the insurance for the travel, your only problem is insurance while it's in the shop, make some arrangement with the shop owner

Bill

I'd throw it on a trailer and tow it back then do a few shake down rides.. 2700 miles on a rebuild is a bit far for it's maiden voyage. Just my 2 cents

Nope, Red58, I cannot "easily get the insurance for the travel."

ICBC would appraise it once it's done and we could reach an "agreed upon" value for a custom vehicle. But the AutoPlan folks say that process takes at least 2 months from the time you apply...... Otherwise, I have liability insurance but comprehensive is limited to the depreciated value of a 1953 pickup.... about $1.68!

Hagerty rep is trying to find a solution, but it all keeps coming back to the fact that I live in Ontario and the vehicle is registered in BC. You'd think we were trying to do a deal between Kazatstan and Albania.....

well, I think that depends on who you talk to, for the trip you should be able to insure it as a normal vehicle and get optional increased comprehensive coverage or special equipment coverage with the receipts from the shop - if you want it classed as a collector vehicle it isn't simple even if you live here ... and of course it depends on how risk averse you are, if you have insurance in BC and had an accident in Manitoba, you'd have real hurdles to jump

your primary problem is the 'storage' insurance today and which you really should be talking to the shop about .... with your experience over the import thing I'd think you would have done this homework before committing to doing the shop work here on a vehicle that was already roadworthy

Bill

Whoa, Bill, what's with the cheap shot? A little rust in your corn flakes this morning? I thought this was a supportive forum of like-minded owners looking for help and offering constructive solutions.....

The insurance "homework" WAS done. The problem was that both the ICBC (Autoplan) and Hagerty people that I spoke with well in advance did not tweak on to the unusual restriction of me needing to have a B.C. address. As the head of Hagerty Canada told me just yesterday, "I thought we were a national company." He was unaware of the BC restrictions which seem to be unique in the country.

To his credit, he is still actively trying to find a way around this for me.....

The AutoPlan/ICBC folks had even started writing up my policy in Burnaby before hitting the unexpected requirement that I needed to live in B.C. to purchase Restoration insurance. They sold me temp permit and basic driving insurance, though.

"I'd think you would have done this homework before committing to doing the shop work here"

"The AutoPlan/ICBC folks had even started writing up my policy in Burnaby before hitting the unexpected requirement that I needed to live in B.C. to purchase Restoration insurance"

how is it a 'cheap shot' that I thought you would have done what you now say you did?
the question then is why you didn't sort out the storage issue before you left town? sorry if that sounds like a 'cheap shot' .... I thought I gave some good solutions, including Canadian Direct for extra travel insurance, you most certainly can get coverage for more than "the depreciated value of a 1953 pickup", from them or ICBC - and it appears BC is not unique if Ontario won't give you any storage insurance either

and again, have you discussed it with the shop owner? can you get storage insurance using his address? does he have insurance on shop contents? do you trust him?

Bill

Thanks Bill...

What you need to ask the insurance companies about is builders insurance. This is to insure a vehicle for the money you're putting into it during building, but it accounts for the fact that the vehicle won't be on the road or registered.

You're right 46, but I can't find a BC company to sell it to a guy with an Ontario address. Nor can I find an Ontario company to insure a vehicle registered in BC....
Seem to be caught up in provincial regs. Too bad there aren't federal ones.

It's not enough just to be a Canadian!

Shopowner is being very helpful and trying to find a solution..... No word back yet from head of Hagerty Canada....

Will keep you posted and thanks for your input.

You own the vehicle and you're in Ontario, so you should be able to find an Ontario company that is willing to give you builders insurance, regardless of where the truck is located. Even if you can't get anything, the shop where you have it should have insurance to cover anything that happens to it as well. They're required to, I believe.

Hi, everybody, and thanks for all of the input.
I have finally resolved it, after speaking directly with supervisors at both Hagerty and ICBC and Ontario MTO.....
While the truck is under restoration/modification at the shop in B.C., Hagerty is covering things even though I live in Ontario and have the truck in a B.C. shop and still registered as a B.C. vehicle. Hagerty will re-evaluate periodically as the work is done, upping the coverage as value increases.
When it's time to bring it home to Ontario, ICBC will issue 3rd-party liability insurance with the 15-day temporary permit and Hagerty coverage will be for the comprehensive side of things.
Before I come home I will also transfer the vehicle into "unfit" Ontario status, locking in the sales tax on the value before the updates. When I arrrive in Ontario I will then get safety certificate and plates for the road.
All sides have agreed that this will work in my unique situation and I thank all of you for your input and advice....

Hy Waves2275, thanks for letting us know how things played out, if I hadn't read it here I would never have believed it was such a hard thing to get insurance in one province, just because you lived in another province! I hope the work on the truck, and the trip home go very smoothly