The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Demounting/mounting my own tires advice....

I have a tire changer and I have been able to break the bead down on one of my tires. Looking at youtube videos I can see how this is done, but I have never done it before.

Any advice other than be very careful? I do not have the widow maker rims. They are three piece.

I would like some help on identifying them. Pice are here http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/r...sion/46%20Chevy%202%20ton%20Truck?page=1

Thanks for any advice.

Anyone with some advice on this - yes please do share. Been wanting to break ours down also, but would definitely like to hear from somebody that has done it before. Thanks so much.

You need the right tools for the job...

If you have 2-piece Lock rings you need a tool like this

http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1307034.html

The first step is to remove the valve stem core. Then break the bead on the lock ring side using a duck bill hammer

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...=cii_17588969&cpncode=30-137690555-2

or a slide hammer

http://www.uniquetruck.com/p-16401-...056&gclid=CPDf0vHrkbYCFUXf4AodyxQAAQ

Then push the lock ring down and hook the lock ring iron into the slot on the ring and pull back on the handle. I find it helps to hit the lock ring on the other end with a heavy rubber faced hammer while pulling. The ring will pop free. Then turn the wheel and tire over and break the bead on that side, then set it on a cinder block and push the tire off of the wheel while pushing the valve stem in.

That's it!

Do 6 in one afternoon and you won't need to go to the gym that day!

Mike B

Is that all the same wheel you are showing? One of them looks like a RH-5° Firestone.

I remember when I used to bust multi-piece rims all day!! Just like Mike B said. If you have two of the pry bars, you can walk those rings off. Another tip. After you bust the second bead, you pick up the assembly and, using a block or something under the rim, you kinda slam down the assembly and, hopefully, the tire slides off the rim. I used to use an old 16.5" rim under the 20" rims. Anyway, the tip is, if the tire doesn't slide off the rim, you can use the slide hammer to knock it down off the rim. A lot of times there is a rust ring that forms where the liner sits preventing the tire from sliding off. Also, one component of our safety program was to deflate in a cage and inflate in a cage. Don't inflate the tire to "pop" off a stuck bead. Stand at an angle to your cage when you inflate ( out of the trajectory areas )and use a 72" plus air chuck.

Those pictures look like the evil two piece. Somewhere you may find RH-5 written on them. In my travels to find good rims, I found a guy that had 5 brand new ones stored away. I would not use them, they are illegal here.
Anyway. You have to break the bead and move the movable thin part of the rim inwards. After that you either lever out the lock ring, or if its an RH5, find the two indents in the thin outer rim that allow you to cock it slightly at an angle and slide off at the two short narrow points that are visible in the main rim.
The RH5 simply does not have enough interference area between the two parts and they can flex apart.
Once you have the outer bead broken, and you can get the outer rim off, its just more hard work to get the tire off.
My tires were old "Rayon" ones. Rayon is from a natural fibre and tends to rot. Also it went out of use maybe in the '60s. So if your tires are ancient and can be sacrificed, cut the sidewall all the way round, remove the maximum tire, and use an angle grinder to cut the bead from within. Then it will fall off. I wanted to keep a couple of my tires, and spent up to a full day with levers and hammers, slowly working the bead apart over the rust. And I am used to a hard days work- it was hard.
The rims can rust badly but the area around the lock rim tends to be drier and doesnt suffer so bad. I had mine bead blasted followed by heavy zinc paint.
Reassembly is just the reverse, with maximum focus on safety. The three piece rims seem pretty safe to me. Assemble the tube and rust band into the tire, and place over the large rim. Press the thin rim down and lever on the lock ring. At this point use a cage or stand the tire against a saw-horse in an open area so its vertical. Approach the tire only from the tread edge side and inflate carefully with as few PSI as possible until the tire moves out on the bead and the thin rim is loaded up against the thick rim with the lock ring in place. I use no bead lube as I want it totally dry in there. I think it is important to have a screw on air fixture- not one you hold with your hand. Keep your limbs away from the rim trajectory.
Once you have the bead up and the lock ring loaded, with maybe 5 psi in it, its done and together. Carefully inspect that the bead is right up the rim all the way on both sides. Carefully inspect the fit of the two rims and lockring all the way round. Dont get beside it, stay at the edge. I had no problem beading old or new tires. I guess the rims were a bit smaller from lost material and bead blasting.
Inflate to working pressure. Back in the day that was 50-70psi. Today you are not fully loading the truck and 35 is fine. Remember the pressure holds it together- if it goes flat it could fall apart.
At this point you can bounce it by the edges, and fit it to the truck. you may want to leave it a while, or overnight, to see if it will hold air, or blow apart.
I do not think these would blow once inflated and straight, there is way too much interference fit between the rim parts. But I was still very wary of mine.
Lastly- seal around the valve with RTV to prevent further water centrifuging in, it has no way to get out.

They can and they will. Especially if under-inflated. Inflate to recommended pressure. Whichever is your minimum ( oh yes, rims are rated, too!!!)

Thanks for the advice guys. I will order the tools and see how I do. I'll try to take a video.

Any advice on the best place for tires? I would like to use American made if at all possible. The cheapest I have found is Nebraska Tire, But I don't know if the Samson tires are us made. I plan on calling them next week to find out.

Anybody in Indiana need tires and would want to split shipping with me?

RDomeck

Call Hoosier Tire in Ellettsville, IN. By the time I got shipping and tubes from Nebraska Tire, Hoosier Tire was a way better deal. I don't know the size you need but its worth a call.

Before you order any tires or tools you need to take a close look at your wheels. The one you have pictured is a Firestone RH-5° that splits in the middle. They are very dangerous for experienced people. Samson tires are made in China, but I think they are one of the better Chinese brands. We use them on our forklifts, but I don't use them on our line haul trucks. Again let me stress that you need to post some better pictures of those wheels. If they are Firestone RH-5°, you need to scrap them and find some Goodyear type wheels with a lock ring.

Picture # 2 looks to be a lock ring wheel not a widow maker.

Thats why I asked if it was all the same wheel. I think he might have a mix of wheels.

I'll post up some better pics tomorrow. I thought I took pics of the same wheel and that it was not a widow maker. I'll look them all over and make sure and post up some better pics.

Thanks,

http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/r...sion/46%20Chevy%202%20ton%20Truck?page=1

Some better pics in the album. Any help identifying them would be great.

Thanks,

The first 3 and the last 2 pictures are the Firestone RH-5°. The rest of them seem to be the Goodyear type. I can't tell how many pictures are of the same wheel.

I think you're OK, I don't see any RH5 wheels in that lot.

You can better tell for yourself after seeing this picture of an RH5
https://picasaweb.google.com/118082002072608219229/OldTruckWheelPicturesAndInfo#5803307544601367954

Grigg

I did not see any rings on the pictures I looked at. There was no break on the outside to allow for ring removal. There has to be a better option than the widow makers. With different, more modern rims, you can probably find better, safer, cheaper and more readily available tires.

The pictures really not good enough for me to tell for sure, but the ridge in the middle of a couple the wheels could indicate that that is where they split like the photo that Grigg posted. The best way to tell for sure is to completely disinflate them and beat on the lock ring. If it moves, you have the Goodyear type which are fine. However, if there is any indication that they are put together like the picture that Grigg posted, get rid of them. For me it is hard to tell what you have for sure with all the dirt on them.

I'll break one down and see. I feel like all of the rims split on the outer edge of the rim. The ridge that your seeing in the photo's look like just a recess to allow the tire to slip into.

I'll see if I can beat one apart today. I was hoping to not restore the wheels until I restore the truck, but I know I will not be able to have the tires off and not clean up the wheels and paint them!

Wow, I expected that to take much longer than it did. I broke down the bead in the tire changer and it took maybe 15 minutes at most of beating on it!

I don't think these are Widow makers....What do you guys think?

http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/r...sion/46%20Chevy%202%20ton%20Truck?page=1

Thanks for all the help so far!

Look good to me, not RH5.

It's quite easy to inspect (in person) and determine if something is an RH5 wheel because when installed on a front axle looking at the outside of it there is no lock ring visible on the outside, just a big fat one piece flange that's part of the wheel, non removable. Any other multi-piece wheel you will see multiple pieces.

Grigg

If all of the wheels are like the one you broke down, you will be just fine.

Thanks for the input. I did get a price from a local tire company of $177 a tire and $35 for the tube. The tires are Samson's. Have any of you guys ran those? Good, bad, indifferent?

Probably going to have the wheels blasted and I will prime, block and paint them....Then beat the hell out of them putting everything back together! Sounds like good logic to me.

Well 5 of my tires are in good shape. The front two can't have more than 1000 miles on them. Non of them have any cracks. And they have all held air for the last 2 1/2 years I have owned the truck. Minus the one that looks horrible and needs replaced. The other tire next to the bad one looks pretty new also. I think I'm going to just get one tire for now. Going to clean up the rust lips on the wheel and install.

I don't mind going thru sandblasting and painting, but I know me well enough to know that if the wheels look restored I will want to restore the rest of the body and I know that I do not have the time for that right now.

Those look like lock rings to me. Read up on how they go back together and be sure to use a tire cage. The danger comes when inflating and the ring is not seated and can fly off.

Samson is a Chinese brand. I have some of them on forklifts, but I haven't used any on my line haul trucks.

if they are good and clean there is no beating them back together. they assemble easily if not bent/distorted from beating them apart

I would replace the steer tires to be safe. They may look good now but once you start driving on them, they could disintegrate from age and dryness. If they look good on the inside, move them to the rear. Far less risk having them blow out back there.
Most of the tires I've found for these old trucks come from China. Not many choices anymore. Seems the US companies have given up making anything that doesn't sell in huge numbers. For the limited use these trucks will see, they may be fine. It's not like we are going to drive long distances at high speed...

For re-assembly after paint, use a plastic headed deadblow hammer to avoid damage. As has been said, if the lock ring isn't all bent from removal, it should snap back in fairly easily and be tight to the wheel. If it has gaps at the lock side, it should be discarded. I've used bent rings in the past by holding them in position with vises grips while inflating but it isn't the best scenario nor would that be kind to new paint...

Thanks for all the replies guys. The steer tires are 7.5X20's and they really look like they could have been put on last year. I know that they are older than that, but I will heed your warning and pull them off to inspect inside. If they still look new inside I will reuse.

I was really surprised with how easy the one wheel came apart. Hope to make some time this week to dismount the others and inspect!

Is there a DOT number on your tire?

The DOT number on one of the fronts is

5J23 2613801

The 2613801 is casted in. I believe this means that it was made the 38th week of 2001, 1991 or 1981? Not sure what the 261 is for, but as I understand the date codes read from the last four digits?

Thanks,

2001, so that is a 12 year old tire? 12 years of being out in the weather? How are the sidewalls? Cracking? UV does all kinds of damage to rubber. Even a 20 year old tire can look new inside. The inside is mostly protected from moisture, sun, etc. I'm not trying to get you to spend all your money, but a 12 year old tire with an unknown history on the steer axle? Your call.

That doesn't look correct for a date code. Are there any numbers behind this stamped in an oval?

The numbers in the oval are 2613801. The tires look like they could be new! I have had the truck for about 2 1/2 years. I purchased from Larry Sparks. He is a bluegrass singer for the last 40+ years in case you haven't heard his name before. It was kept in his barn and he used it to teach his son how to drive!

There are no cracks on the side walls at all. I think I will give them a shot. I just drove it for the first time with brakes. The couple of times before that it didn't have any brakes! Tires seem to be round and in good shape!

Nylon bias tires don't age like radials. I have had 30 year old nylon bias tires on storage trailer that I pulled at highway speeds. Radials blow out from just sitting there. I wouldn't worry about them.

Yup. DOT will be 4 numbers in a separate oval.

My tire paranoia comes from my company's tire policy. We run them no more than 7 years, no less than 3/32, and put them through a heat cycle every 30 days. We don't have much in bias plies in the fleet anymore.

Your mileage may vary.

DOT will be the last 3 or 4 numbers depending upon age. I don't know that I have seen a string of numbers at the end more than 3 or 4 numbers though....I'm not sure what is up with the 261 either. All of the tires I've seen either have a letter before the last 3/4 numbers or there are multiple ovals.

-a 3 digit code will be in the 90's (not sure about 80's) i.e. 129 is 12th week of 99
-a 4 digit code will be 2000 and newer. i.e. 1209 is 12th week of 2009

The 3 digit tires are obviously becoming less common but are still around.

Tad

I made the switch to radials back in the 80's and I wouldn't run anything else on my line haul equipment. Part of our 15,000 PM is to check the dates on tires and take anything out of service that is 4 years old. Although Michelin claims that the carcass should be recappable fo7 years, its not worth the risk. In fact I sell carcasses rather than cap them. We do not carry no spares, and a blowout on our aluminum bulk trailers can be a very expensive ordeal. However, I grab every used nylon bias tire I can find to put on storage trailers because they don't blow out from age. This is why most container chassis trailers still use bias tires. And you can leave them parked in bad neighborhoods and no one steals them. I have been in the trucking business for 49 years, but I am clueless as to what putting them through a heat cycle every 30 days means.

I think they don't want them sitting long enough to get flat spots, etc. We have a lot of construction equipment/ trailers that won't move except for the 90 inspection.