Hey fellas, I'm new to the forum although I have been going on here for a long time to learn. This would be my first post.... I own a 1954 1300 five window with a 235 inline 6 and a 4 speed on the floor. The previous owner said that the engine is original so I am going with that until proven otherwise. The motor has always started very easily especially after I reinstalled a manual choke switch. It has never smoked and has always purred nicely at idle and throttled up without a hiccup. The other day I did something stupid. I moderately reved the motor, popped clutch, and chirped off a green light, taking off somewhat faster than my slow pokey self usually does. Not rental car disregard but still, more aggressively than I normally ever drive any of my vehicles. Seconds later, the motor stalled. I tried restarting it, choked and unchoked and filled the gas tank that I knew wasn't empty but nothing worked. It would turn over with no problem but didn't even think of starting. After I pulled her home, I checked for a spark with a spark plug tester and got nothing. So I bought a new point for it and installed it and still no spark. So I checked the condenser and it's getting 12v with the ignition switch on. I then checked to see if the cam under the distributor was turning when I turned the ignition and it didn't move! I checked to see at the oil fill if the valve lifters are moving when I turn the engine over and they also don't move. What have I done to my poor engine? I have done some research but have not been able to find if I have a timing chain or gear in this motor. Is it possible that this is what I have f'ed up? Could I have broken something else as well? I find it curious that there is no spark at the point with the ignition on and a slight gap at the point. Isn't is suppose to tick a spark in that position? I get the feeling my problem goes way beyond that. I would appreciate any info that you guys can provide. I'm hoping that I'm not responsible for killing an engine that has been just fine for the last 59 years until I came along.
I'm not sure of that year, but the truck engines used steel timing gears. Where as the car engines had a phenolic cam gear for quiet operation. They could strip teeth off, especially at high miles, and age. High loading like you did can cause some violent torsional vibration in the crankshaft, and with old damper etc. that could possibly strip teeth or shear a key that locates the gear. Its likely due for an overhaul. There is no timing chain on 235's.
Kicking self for selling off my Taskforce trucks. Still looking for an LCF or conventional big bolt in decent shape.
As of 10-26-2022, A 55.2 Taskforce long bed now the work begins
I then checked to see if the cam under the distributor was turning when I turned the ignition and it didn't move! I checked to see at the oil fill if the valve lifters are moving when I turn the engine over and they also don't move.
If the distributor is not turning and the rockers are not moving than you have had a cam gear failure. Most likely a fiber gear which is common to fail.
tcl- I will be looking for those numbers first thing tomorrow to see what engine we are dealing with for sure.
All the research I have done so far is jiving with what most of you guys have mentioned; that there is no chain in the 235 and that the trucks had an aluminum gear while the cars had a fiber one.
I can only hope that this is the weak link and that it's the only thing that broke. Just by looking at it, it seems like the fan blade and water pump need to come off to access the front cover. How extensive can I expect the gear swap to be? Has anyone done this work before that can walk me through it? Can anyone recommend where to get the parts from? There's a gasket right? Not rtv? I have some guys at the station telling me that it's a sign to throw an LS1 motor in her but I don't know how I feel about that since it seems like it's the original. Thanks again for the input guys. Keep them coming.
It seems as if I am definitely going to need a shop manual. Which is the best one to show the way to someone that knows very little? Thanks again guys.
The '54 shop manual is available free online here. If you need a hardcopy, any of the parts houses (like Jim Carter, American Classic, etc) will have them. You also might be able to get an original one used at a swap meet.
Many of us have replaced the timing gear on these old sixes and some of us have had them fail like yours. Basically you remove the camshaft and have a shop press on a new gear. We can answer your questions here.
My friend had a 55 Chevy 235 car engine in his 51 truck. He told me he was driving it not sure how aggressive but he heard a loud bang on his motor and it shut down shut it down. I bought the motor from him for parts and it had a fiber gear and hydralic lifters. When I took the motor apart the teeth were completely worn down on the cam gear, a couple of lifters the spring clips were off and there was two pieces at different locations on the counter weights on the crank had been worn down. The bearings were ok.
It seems as if I am definitely going to need a shop manual. Which is the best one to show the way to someone that knows very little? Thanks again guys.
First, figure out the year of your engine (which will also figure out if you have a car/truck engine), then find the manual on-line or printed new/used).
As stated above you must remove the cam. To do this you must remove the valve cover, rockers, pushrods, side cover, lifters, harmonic balancer, oilpan, timing gear cover, radiator...
I think that about covers it. Still easier than swapping in an LS1, whatever that is.
"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964
A similar move on my 327ci - I sheared off the distributor's base to-crankshaft gear. Pulled the distributor to find that the gear wasn't attached. Retrieved the broken off gear, stuck in a rebuilt junkyard distributor and motored on. It was simple back in the day! This might not be the source of the problem but worth a check...?
Thanks for the info Bill. I have been doing some more research today and I have come to find out that this engine is an interference engine. Do you guys think that I may have broken internals of this engine beyond repair? Should I be looking for a replacement?
Wow, thanks for the responses. Being new to the forum, I wasn't sure what to expect. You guys are great.
Firstly, I will be identifying the engine and obtaining a manual.
Vics1939- If I would have snapped the distributor base that wouldn't explain the valves not moving when I turn the motor over while looking in my oil fill does it?
So where do you guys recommend buying parts from? I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again.
Check this guy out. I actually found him on a post here on the stovebolt site that was listed 9 year 10 years ago. I just can not find the post again. I google him and this is the utube video that popped up. I just called him on friday and ordered some pistions, bearings and motor mounts NOS from him. You might take a look for parts.
I have a detailed list of places i use just pm me and i will send you what i have.
"As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my sweet ride." -Amen
Lester, what a cool guy. Thanks for the link James
1953 Chevrolet 3100 261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done In the DITY Gallery Video of the 261 running
1964 GMC 1000 305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
You'll need to post the head and block date casting codes to find the years/dates.
F072IJC F = Flint, MI 07 = July 21 = 21st JC = 3100-4000 series truck with RPO-227 (11" heavy-duty clutch? maybe someone can confirm that RPO # and what it refers to)?
B21 848850 - no one has provided a reasonable explanation of that code?
Thanks Drew. I am sticking with the engine. For now that is. My plan can go two ways as of right now. I am going to start by trying to get to the crank gear, which after all my research is more than likely the culprit. If it is fairly easy to get to, I will replace it and continue to drive it as is, if it starts looking like it is going to be a nightmare to get to I may just pull the engine out and do a rebuild. With help of course cause I have no idea what I'm doing. I am going to owe my friend a bunch of beer.
OK, so I had the time today to pull the valve cover off and cleaned the engine off enough to read all the numbers clearly. I found the rest of the other numbers on the block as well.
These are all the numbers on the motor so far.
Block Casting Code 3769716 Engine Serial # F072IJC Head Casting Code 3836848 GM-25
and other numbers on the distributor side of block? B21 848850 G20 0 CON 4
Under the valve cover on the carb side CON 9 G20 0
So looking up the new numbers I see that the block date casting numbers on the distributor side G20 0 is July 20th of 0, is 0 60? or 50? Same number under the valve cover cover on the carb side G20 0 July 20th of 60? or 50?
I have a question, I found a cam gear number of 2514. Is it safe to assume that all the 325's had this cam gear? Even the new old stock ones that I have found have it stamped on the side. So I know I will found out soon enough.
My plan is to remove the front clip, pull the motor out, work on replacing the cam gear and seeing if there is anything else that needs addressing. ei: compression test, visual check of pistons, ring, replace seals, paint, etc.
Oh, one more thing Tim, is there anything in these numbers that would have you suspect that this may be a car engine and not a truck? Is there any way of knowing? I ask because the manual may be a different one and because the gear in the car motors were not aluminum like the trucks.
F072IJC F = Flint, MI 07 = July 21 = 21st JC = 3100-4000 series truck with RPO-227 (11" heavy-duty clutch? maybe someone can confirm that RPO # and what it refers to)?
The cam timing gear in a truck engine was metal (composite material timing gear was use in in a car engine). I think those cam gears were interchangeable - the composite gear was quieter and the metal gear was stronger/longer-wearing (but noisier)
I found a NOS cam gear with a number 2514 online for $60. I am going to try to do some research to make sure that it's the one that fits this truck. The seller is saying that it fits that year but I would really like to see some literature. I wonder how much that gear size changed throughout the years of the 235's??
Ok, so I finally had some time this afternoon and I jumped into get this fixed. I got the upper radiator shroud out, as well as the radiator, alternator, and water pump. I got all visible bolts off the gear cover. All that is left in front of it is the cam pulley. The cover is loose but it won't budge from the bottom. I can only assume that there is a bolt that I haven't gotten to and or the pulley needs to come off. I am unsure how to make this happen since there is no bolts or nuts on the pulley. Can anyone give me a hint? Thanks in advance for any advice.
