The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors Rubber Floor Mat Questions '52

I've installed my PVC upper inside cowl cover and the rubber floor mat along with the lower cab windlace and retainers. Questions: #1-- Does the rubber floor mat go under the cowl cover or lay on top of it? #2-- Does the rubber floor mat go under the lower cab windlace retainer?? I want to know the "factory way" but I feel that the rubber mat looks nice tucked up and under the PVC cowl cover.... and I like the lower cab retainers holding the rubber mat from sliding forward when you get in with a little pressure on your foot. I know, I know, if thats how I like it then do it but I want to know how it came from the factory...OK....OK :) ...now I realize if its "anchored down" that I'd have to remove the retainers to check the brake fluid or battery but how often to we have to do these things? yearly?

Take a look at this factory photo, that mat is under the firewall cover.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8295962190/in/set-72157632304126997
http://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8326841304/in/set-72157632386552074
On the windlace retainers I don't believe the mat goes under there. I would base this on the fact these were work trucks not hobby vehicles and it would make no sense to remove these for access. I would also base this on the fact that removing a set of those for the first time during restoration those screws have been here since day one.

This is an original firewall cover and there is no lip formed at the bottom. The mat is a
reproduction and is not made as well as the original factory mats were, which had a
border all the way round the top of the mat.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/113960197
I stole a picture from you Brad to illustrate this and its my feeling that it shows the mat
over the top of the cover. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/148279235
Also the mats were not trapped under the step plate Alvin. When you try it you will see
that the step plate just doesn’t fit right that way.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

If the cab windlace retainers cover the floor mat, you won't be able to roll back the floor mat to check the brake fluid or to access the battery.

That too Lonnie. dg

Lonnie/DG, I mentioned that in my first post but since I carry a screwdriver with me most of the time its no problem. I'm hoping I don't need to flip it back very often!!

Well, I like the mat under the cowl cover. The repop mat looks like the one you have Denny, with the "border" around it. Still, I stuck it under the PVC cowl cover and it looks pretty good. I also went ahead and put the edge under the mat with the retainer screws going through it to. I had Victoria climb in the passenger side and noticed as she got in the rubber mat slipped some toward the front...just like with me. It may be just the way we get in with the bucket seats or where we have them adjusted. Anway, THANKS you guys for helping set the record straight. I just had to know..... and I just had to do it my way

I'll try to get a couple pics and come back and edit this.

To address the mat sliding forward, the factory floors had steel buttons on each side near the seat base (the same buttons as those found on the toe board). I have 3 AD trucks, but only one (the 49) still has these rear mat buttons remaining.

52Carl, your right. However about everything was changed in the floor from the front of the seat riser to the half the toe board and each side to the overlap where the lower cab windlace goes on my 52. So, I just stuck the rubber mat under the retainer. Looks decent and it doesn't move. Thanks for reminding us of what "was" suppose to be there.

Oh, and instead of using the little push through clips to hold the cowling in place under the dash....I used 1/2" self tapping screws. They worked really good.

Carl, do you have a picture of those lugs near the seat base?
I've never seen them anywhere but on the toe board.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, I don't have a pic but if my memory is correct there was one on each side of the seat kind of on the corner.....but don't bank on it. Its been a while and we cut all that out. Maybe my memory is taking me to a different place.

Carl, got a picture.... or maybe Brad Allen can chime in. He's parted out about as many trucks as I am years old

This one will need a little research. I do not remember pins in that area but will check through my notes and pictures.

I will take some pictures of the button/pins and have my buddy 52Mark show me how to post them. Fisrt time poster, long time lurker on this site.

Hey 'preciate that Carl. I just went out and pulled the mats up
on my '50 and thar taint no sign of there ever being any studs
anywhere near the seat base.
I know nothing about posting photos other than the ones I post
to my photo album and then link to here occasionaly. When you
include a link to your photos in the thread, make sure you have
a space in front and in back of it. That will display it as
a "hyperlink" so all the guys have to do is click on it to open
it.

Denny Graham

None of my 1954 standard cab trucks had locator-pins on the seat-side of the floor. If anyone has a Factory Assembly Manual handy, I dimly recall a few pages that show the floor mat and show the floor-mat locating pins on the front toe-board. Does the FAM show pins near the seat base?

If Carl and Mark don't have time to post some pictures of the mat studs, I'll try and post some tonight. My '49 panel has them still.

Almost lights out around our house Chris. Gonna have to look for
those pictures in the morning I guess.
Wondering if they are a "panel" thing only.
Denny G

I don't think you will find them in the rear on a truck. They are on the toe board but I am pretty sure that is where they stop. I can see a panel truck being a different animal.

Okie Dokie,

Here are some terrible pic of the mat tabs. This is in the passenger side of my bus.

First up, a poorly lit, slightly out of focus snap of the two up on the firewall, which hold the mat over the pad.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/HomeCrafter/IMGP0001-23_zpsfefaa2d7.jpg

A close up (In focus!) of the right tab.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/HomeCrafter/IMGP2556_zpsf01d1a4c.jpg

The floor tab that keeps the mat from creepin'

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/HomeCrafter/IMGP2557_zps6ebecb1e.jpg

And here we have the button all by its lonesome.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/HomeCrafter/IMGP2558_zps27cdb5da.jpg

OOOK,Chris. Proof is in the pudding.....and Carl said earlier he has them in his TRUCK (wasn't it '49) so that would rule out Panels only.
As I mentioned before, I THINK, I remember them on my old pieces we cut out because both of them were about rusted off right at the floor. I THINK!! The metal pieces are long gone.

Carl, looking forward to the pic of them in your truck....and this may have been relative to the assembly plant??? or model years??...either way it would make good sense to have them there.

Thanks again Chris for your pictures

Hey all, sorry for not posting pics from 52Carl's truck sooner. The knucklehead just told me tonight that he (we) owed them to y'all. Chris put some pretty good pics up already, but I'll be getting together with 52Carl this weekend and we'll get some pics from his truck up this weekend.

Here is a picture of an un-restored '49 GMC truck I had an opportunity to photograph. rear floormat pin/post My '50 Chevy and '52 GMC trucks do not have these posts nor is there any evidence that there ever was one in this location, so maybe it was a 1949 thing.

Maybe the pins in the floor near the seats were eliminated when a wider seat was introduced in 1950 in the standard cab trucks?

It will be interesting to hear from more people with "unmolested" floors.

Here is a picture of the interior from my 53 GMC fire truck. The interior is factory original and shows no post for 53:
http://www.centuryfarm.org/gallerie...-truck/1953-gmc-450-fire-truck-interior/
Bob

I have pored over my filmstrips and cannot find a picture that illustrates these pins. My truck is a 1950 and I did not have them in place when I started panel replacement. I am curious to hear about this as well. The picture Mr. Lang posted of the rear pin looks mighty suspect (rough) to be factory. It also seems to be in a different spot than the one in Huck's pictures.

My '48 1/2 ton has the retaining pins near the bench seat corners. I can post a photo or two Saturday eve./Sunday if it would help anyone.

I've documented the originality of my '50 many time in
discussions here and it was 95% original when I bought it. The
original floor mats were still in it and the floor is solid and
in tack and unmolested also. No stabilizer pins near the seat,
only on the toe board.
It sounds to me like it was common to the GMC but not the
Chevy's and ended with 50.

It would be easy enough to spot weld a couple in Alvin or you
could even punch a 1/4" hole and double nut a machine screw in
place of welding it in.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'm still waiting to see Marks pic of Carls truck. So far its mainly opinions...even with the pics. Seems everone wants infalible prove...including me

However, as I said before I do remember my panel, which I'm 95% sure was original, had the pins. I do remember picking up a piece of metal with them on it...one rusted almost into. I did not take a pic but I know it was there.

They either came from the factory, maybe certain factories, are maybe a dealer added them to "stop a problem".

It really doesn't matter. I may take my mat out from under the lower cab windlace retainer and put my own "studs" in place to hold it and punch a couple holes for it with my hole punchers!!

Wow, what a learning experience. I didn't mean to start a war with my initial post..... but hey, I like it

Mr. Lang, Is your truck an early 49? (Screw-on windlace around inside door opening, smooth firewall at left side veiwed from under hood. Mine is an early 49. I'm wondering if the rear floormat retaining buttons were discontinued after mid-49 or after late 49. Why does it matter? I don't know, it just does!

Nope, mine's a "late" '49 I guess, its got the windlace that slides in the channel.

My late 49 still has original floor mat pins
pin picture

Josh

Ya compare the location of the pins in Chris and Josh's photos
and they are the same. So I would assume they were both installed
at the factory. Gotta be the year that is the common denominator
here, i.e., 1949 being the last year they used them.

These trucks had been in production for several years at this
time and GM was in steep market competition with Ford and Dodge.
They were always on the lookout for ways to shave a few penny's
off the bottom line. Eliminating these would get rid of a
couple of extra production operations.
I don't and never did have them in the '50 and I've never had a
problem with the mat pushing forward.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The seats/cushions (bases?) in standard cab trucks were widened in 1950. That would perhaps have been a good time to coincidentally make a change in the rearward floor pins?

Has anyone looked at the master parts book for the floormats to see if there was a split in the years? I assume that the mats would come with the holes pre-punched if they belonged on an earlier year.

Great shot sinistar. I'd say that is factory!! Just to many photo's of them showing up to be "cobbled in" by Larry, Moe, or Curly.

Now the question seems to be when did they stop doing it....or why some trucks and panels have them and some don't.

Greg,

The problem with using MPB information as an indicator of when something changed is that a slightly different later replacement part can sometimes be made to work in the earlier vehicle. Putting a hole in the later rubber mat so that it will work with a pin in the floor, is not a big deal. No more of a big deal than the other modifications one has to go through when using replacement floor mats in trucks with different transmission or different locations of the dimmer button/switch.

Maybe someone will do a scientific survey by emailing/asking 1949 and 1950 pickup and panel truck owners in the Gallery? Inquiring minds want to know?

Just looking through the parts book I see:
48-52 Comm (3 speed)(exc. 1 ton) 3695051
50-54 1/2, 3/4 ton (3 speed 0 9exc. sub 03698173
50-51 1/2, 3/4 ton (4 speed)(exc sub) and
52-54 comm. (4 speed)(exc. sub) 3698181
54 comm (exc sub, ffc) 3709643

Is it possible that the extra studs came on 4 speed trucks? It makes some sense as the shifters would tend to move the floormats.

Good information, Greg

What about Suburban floor mats?

Gives new meaning to Jim Carter's:

"Floor Mat 1947-1955 3 and 4 Speed Except COE

When you restore your 1947 early-55 GM truck like original, you will need this black rubber molded mat."

Jim must not have checked the part book when he listed it so broadly. He does state that "We recently had them produced just like GM made them! The pattern is from a new mat bought from a Chevrolet dealership in the early 1970's."

One size/pattern fits all?

Since you asked... Section 16.800 Mat, Toe and floor board

I see 47-53 SUB under pass seat (molded 3810690)
52-53 SUB (3 speed) 3698175
54 SUB under pass seat (molded 3810590)

Here is what was left of the original floor mat that was in
my 1954, 3604. I got the truck from and talked to the original
owner who was 15 years old in 1954 when his father bought
the truck for him.
The truck does not have the pins at the rear of the mat.
Pictures of the right rear corner w/unused pre-punched hole for pin:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/148491990
Right side and rear smooth border:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/148491989
The top smooth border:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/148491993
The formed 4-speed hump:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/148491992

Those part numbers in the Parts & Accessory book are replacement
part numbers, they do not always reflect the factory-installed part
numbers that were used on the production line. That’s why
we often can’t match up the numbers on the original part with
those in the parts books.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The book I referenced is the "Chevrolet Master Body Parts Catalog 1929-1954 Effective March 1, 1954"

I think your pictures may support the side that rear pins showed up on a 4 speed truck.

It is still speculation in my opinion but I think the evidence is gaining ground on that theory.